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Antique Gas Engine Discussion

carb.or mixer


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  #1  
Old 04-22-2005, 03:28:14 PM
Mark Birdeau Mark Birdeau is offline
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Default carb.or mixer

Doe's anyone have an opinion on the differance between a carb and a mixer or are they the same thing?I always figuered a carb had a air inlet a fuel inlet and some sort of throttle,be it a butterfly,slide or similer device.A mixer has a air inlet,a fuel inlet and a screw to adjust the mix.What do you think? Mark:
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Old 04-22-2005, 04:05:36 PM
Ihorse Ihorse is offline
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Default Re: carb.or mixer

My opinion--a mixer would be as you say, adjusting screw-ect---a carb, however would have a float device to regulate the fuel--plus adj screws-ect
d,j,
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Old 04-22-2005, 04:51:08 PM
Mark Birdeau Mark Birdeau is offline
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Default Re: carb.or mixer

d.j.I use to think that a carb would have a float also until I started working on the old Briggs engines.In the service manual Briggs calls even the simplest of designs carbs.I guess that does't make it right but if they are telling us how to repair them I would hope they know the differance.As a matter of fact it was that manual that made me dought that I was right.Maybe its just a matter of opinion as they all mix fuel and air. Mark:
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Old 04-22-2005, 06:23:55 PM
Kevin O. Pulver Kevin O. Pulver is offline
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Default Re: carb.or mixer

I never saw it written anywhere in stone, but I too always figured that a fuel mixer was a simple affiar with no more than a needle valve and maybe a poppet valve like the lunkenheimers had. That's a good point about the briggs not having a float. But they have the diaphragm pump instead of the float.
Maybe it's written somewhere in some of the old books.
Kevin
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Old 04-22-2005, 08:39:08 PM
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Keith Smigle Keith Smigle is offline
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Default Re: carb.or mixer

n.A device used in internal-combustion engines to produce an explosive mixture of vaporized fuel and air.

I say that there is no difference and that both terms are totally interchangeable no matter how complex or simple the device is.
One feature that is shared by most, even if you are not aware of it and though it may be super crude, is some type of venturi to increase air speed at the time of mixture with the fuel. All Associated enigne mixers (Or should I say carbs) have a venturi in them.
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Old 04-22-2005, 09:49:11 PM
Dick Welty Dick Welty is offline
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Smile Re: carb.or mixer

International Harvester LAs or LBs and Cushman Cubs neither have floats in the carburator. The Cushman has a butterfly in the carb and It's been a while since I've had an LB apart but I think the internationals have a butterfly in the block or manifold.

I have always considered those devices used to mix air and fuel on a Hit and Miss engine as being Mixers and those devices on volumn governed engines as either carburators or injectors.

The truth is that if you use either term and the one that you are comunicating with understands what you are trying to comunicate, then that's good enough. Most of us aren't writing a book anyway.

Dick
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Old 04-22-2005, 10:19:23 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Default Re: carb.or mixer

A mixer does what it says - it mixes air and fuel. It is the most crude design for the purpose. Most have no provision for speed regulation, that is they operate full bore - wide open. Some Lunkenheimer mixers have a provision to limit the amount if air and fuel admitted, a crude throttle, if you will, that is not readily able to adjust. A carbureter mixes the fuel and air, more effeciently, and has a throttle, that readily adjusts the air and fuel admission, thus governing speed. A carb, if set properly can gain about a 30% fuel savings over a mixer (according to a Detroit Engine Works Marine advertisement from 1909) Most carbs also have a choke provision as well.
Andrew
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Old 04-22-2005, 10:35:25 PM
Kevin O. Pulver Kevin O. Pulver is offline
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Default Re: carb.or mixer

Way to go Andrew! I'll take that. Kevin
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Old 04-22-2005, 10:40:43 PM
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Junkologist Junkologist is offline
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Default Re: carb.or mixer

I may be way off on this, but I have always thought that "mixer" was an American term and that "carburetor" had European origins. Generally though, the simplest forms of fuel/air metering devices are called mixers and the more complex ones are called carburetors.

Mike
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Old 04-23-2005, 06:06:59 AM
Leonard Keifer Leonard Keifer is offline
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Default Re: carb.or mixer

Kevin, you stated "That's a good point about the briggs not having a float. But they have the diaphragm pump instead of the float." Only the newer (post 1957 or so) Briggs carbs have a diaphram. If you look at the little vacu-jet carb on a 5S or 6S there is no diaphram. When Briggs changed the numbering system to model numbers like 61000 they started using a diaphram, the diaphram pumping system got more elaborate when they started putting the bigger gas tanks on that were too deep for simple suction.

Andrew seems to have a pretty good definition of mixer and carburetor. Overall it probably comes down to what the maker and the owner want to call that thing that gets the fuel into the engine. Probably doesn't matter much if the engine runs, if it doesn't then there are most likely some other names for them!
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Old 04-23-2005, 08:45:35 AM
Kevin O. Pulver Kevin O. Pulver is offline
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Default Re: carb.or mixer

Leonard, I've heard of the vacu-jets but never worked on them. I made a mixer for my 12HP Champion out of a 2" check valve that was in the iron pile. I just made a brass venturi and needle valve for it like the John deeres have. I removed the spring from the check, and it's heavy enough to act as a choke. It even has that rattly lunk sound on intake stroke.
I call it the Junkenheimer! Kevin
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Old 04-23-2005, 09:56:19 AM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Wink Re: carb.or mixer

Gang:

Years ago, I read an article somewhere about fuel/air mixers.

As I recall, the word "carburetor" was a name given to a mixer that some company had made improvements on. In time, the name became common for any fuel/air mixing device.

In other words, it doesn't matter whether the device has a needle valve, throttle, float chamber, etc., it's still both a mixer and a carburetor.

Now........I could be wrong (and probably am), but you're getting your money's worth.

Take care - Elden
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Old 04-23-2005, 10:45:14 AM
Mark Birdeau Mark Birdeau is offline
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Default Re: carb.or mixer

Thanks everyone.It is pretty much what I suspected and I guess I agree with most everything everyone said.I guess I am going to go on calling the simpler ones mixers and the more complicated ones carbs. Mark:
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Old 04-23-2005, 08:55:39 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: carb.or mixer

On internal combustion engines (ICEs), the name of the game is to mix fuel and air effeciently. The more evenly the fuel is distributed, the more effecient the engine is, and the better the economy. An old ad I have from the Detroit Engine Works, from 1913, gives this break down: First option - a Lunkenheimer mixer. This was standard equipment on their engines from 1896, onward to 1913. In their own brochure, they state that mixers are hard to keep in adjustment, and have to be constantly monitered for load and speed adjustment. (mixers tend to puddle fuel internally at low speeds). In my practical experiance with the 4 Detroits I owned, the plain mixer fed engine was a real pain to run, especially if I changed the speed or load I had on the engine (1902 - 2 HP marine). The 1904 3 HP Marine was a little better, It also was mixer fed, but it was a later Lunkenheimer, with the 'throttle option'. This mixer had a second adjustment for limiting the travel of the intake check. By limiting the lift on the inlet valve, you limited the air and fuel that the engine could injest, a similar operation like a throttle. You still had to contend with puddling at low speeds, and the throttling operation was slow to respond at best, but at least you could better manage engine speed and power, than the regular mixer, and you got a slight advantage in fuel economy (a 5% improvement !). The 1905 4 HP I had was carbureted with a Kingston carb. This engine was a dream to operate compared to the mixer engines. You still had to re-set it for idle to high speed operation, but you did not have to moniter it all the time like the mixers. You also had a throttle to change speed with! You saved up to 24% more fuel with a carburetor according to the ad! The best runner though is the 1909 2 HP Stationary. This engine has a low pressure fuel injecter, designed by Benjamine Middleditch. You saved over 40% more fuel over a mixer fed engine, with the fuel injecter! The fuel injecter was a $15 option for the marine engines in 1909. If you used the engine a lot, you saved enough in fuel savings, to pay for the option, rather quickly!
Andrew
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