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Where can I get a big cylinder hone???


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  #1  
Old 06-07-2005, 12:25:39 AM
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Chris Epping Chris Epping is online now
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Default Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

Does anyone out there know of a supplier for big cylinder hones? There's lots of them around that go to 7 inches, but I need one that will go to at least 8 and maybe even 9. Snap-On sold them till last year, but now they've been discontinued. Probably just need one for a glaze breaker (spring loaded type), don't really need one that grinds/cuts. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks,

Chris Epping
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2005, 01:00:41 AM
WWHoitt WWHoitt is offline
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Default Re: Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

I got one off of E Bay about a year ago, haven't look to see if any is on there now, one I got was a new one for about $225.00, normally cost in $400.00 range, you can get one set of stone holders that go from about 3" to 7" and then there is another set that you can get that goes to about 10". can get the name off of mine if you need it, they are the good hones not the spring type, need in more info let me know.
Bill Hoitt
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  #3  
Old 06-07-2005, 07:56:39 AM
John G John G is offline
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Default Re: Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

For $250 -400, I think I would make one.

John
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Old 06-07-2005, 08:30:59 AM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Default Re: Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

If all you need to do is remove light rust or simply de-glaze the bore; you can use medium grit emery paper and elbow grease. Kerosene will help the paper cut and will wash away the grindings. Just remember to work over all of the bore evenly.

Works for me.

Take care - Elden
http://home.cybertron.com/~edurand
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Old 06-07-2005, 09:44:52 AM
Dick Welty Dick Welty is offline
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Default Re: Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

Chris,

Elden is right, you can buy a lot of parts for $250 to $400. Someone on the Stak said that they used a plastic paint bucket and sand paper to hone one that was larger than yours and it worked fine.

More free advise.

Dick
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  #6  
Old 06-07-2005, 11:39:26 AM
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Default Re: Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

Hi Chris and Elden-
You have the right idea Elden. If only a light cleanup is needed then emory paper and elbow grease is the best ticket. There will likely be the least amount of damage inflicted to the cylinder if it is done by hand. Also fingers will press the paper down into the pits. This makes it "look better" which makes the mechanic feel better about his work. The hone described in previous posts is a Sunnen hone, possibly an AN model if my memory is not playing tricks today. The Sunnen hone is a rigid hone. This means that the stones are gear driven at both ends and expand evenly out. This allows for straightening holes that are out of round and holes that are small in the middle or at the ends. There are stone supports and extensions available that can take the range of the hone to 36" or more. These hones are typically $150 on Epay for a 3-6" model and the price goes up quickly for the hones with the larger attachments.l These hones are primarily for removing small amounts of material typically 1-3 thou to get a finished surface on a new cylinder. They can be used on worn cylinders but you had better know what you are doing if you don't want to ruin the bore. The "flaw" with a rigid hone is that it expands evenly. The problem is that the cylinder has to be taken out to the largest diameter of the worn or pitted spot for the hone to touch that spot. What happens is that the whole cylinder is taken out to this big size and is now oversize and the piston no longer fits properly causing a new set of problems. If you buy a rigid hone you might as well stop at the store and buy a 50 pound bag of common sence to run it with. If you can only find 25 pound bags of common sence you had better get two of them or else leave the Sunnen hone alone. If your cylinder is worn or pitted and you hone till it is "pretty" then you should have plans in place to either build up the old piston to fit the new cylinder size or else make a new piston. You should also consider whether you are going to make the bore a size that only expensive and not so readily available custom made piston rings must be made in order to fit properly. Do your homework and put your brain in gear before you engage the hones. I would rather help you put together a plan to follow and get good predictable results than get a call from you after you have made a mess and we can only custom make our way out of a corner. Maybe I am sounding like the honing police but I still get at least one call a week from someone that engaged the hone before putting his brain in gear. For those of you that feel the need to power hone a cheap and easy way is to get your biggest drill that you have and put the biggest drill bit in it that you have. Then get a rag and wrap around the drill bit wrapped opposite the direction of rotation. Adjust the size of the rag to "fit" the cylinder so that it is a snug fit. On the last outside wrap of the rag put a sheet of your favorite emory cloth. Have fun honing, but just remember, less is better. More will cost you. I like the idea that Dick reports of the paint bucket wrapped in rags and sandpaper also as this can be done by hand and won't over do it. If you only have one or a few to do and are going to re use the old piston I also would recommend saving your money and put it into the restoration. Rigid hones do good work in the proper hands and can cause lots of damage if used improperly. Sunnen.com will sell them to you but be ready for Snap-On type prices. You can easily tie up over $1000 in a new hone with the extensions and stone supports to do big 8-12 inch engine cylinders if you get an assortment of fine to coarse stones for different materials. Think before you hone please.
Thank you,
Dave Reed
Otto Gas Engine Works
2167 Blue Ball Road
Elkton MD 21921-3330
phone 410-398-7340 http://www.pistonrings.net
http://www.pistonring.net
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  #7  
Old 06-07-2005, 11:39:52 AM
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Default Re: Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

Well... When I did my little Steam Engine 9" I just took one of them Cheap glazebreaker hones bought from the Fleamarket tool guy and bent the arms outward untill it would reach far enough. I geuss you could extend them to almost any size.

Also you can buy stones and extensions for the once popular Sunnen Hones that go to something like 14 inches. I just got stones and extensions about a year ago when I honed out my 8 HP Titan to .015 oversize. You can get them online at Sunnen.com ....

I chose this option instead of sleeving as without a custom made sleeve and turning the piston down you will still have a mess. After a couple Controlled expansion cycles in the woodstove the piston fit pretty good... And some custom made rings from Dave and the engine now has good compression and no noticeable piston slap. I am now happy with it where before it left lots to be desired... No... I don't recomend this to anybody but I figured I had nothing to lose..

BTW... I haven't been to your site lately... How is the 15-30 F doing????
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Last edited by Ken Majeski; 06-07-2005 at 12:02:39 PM. Reason: Add More
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Old 06-07-2005, 01:11:38 PM
Fairbanks Kid Fairbanks Kid is offline
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Default Re: Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

Hi Chris, I might have got this idea from Dick Welty awhile back? I just needed to take out a little of the glaze so I used about 5 fine emery cloths glued to a coffee can. They were glued on one side so they would feather outward when the can would spin. I just used a piece of allthread through the center of the can to my hand drill. Seemed to do the job for just cleaning up the cylinder. I quess you could use a smaller or larger can depending on the size of the cylinder? Thank's again Dick if this was your idea.
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Old 06-07-2005, 07:24:20 PM
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Default Re: Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Epping
Does anyone out there know of a supplier for big cylinder hones? There's lots of them around that go to 7 inches, but I need one that will go to at least 8 and maybe even 9.
Hi Chris,
The one I have came from McMaster-Carr. The unit is suspiciously similar to the one that Snap-On carried. On the bright side, it's only $228 for the basic kit. Another $50 will get you the large racks and some extra stones.

Rob
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Old 06-07-2005, 09:03:48 PM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Default Re: Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

Quote:
Originally Posted by pistonring
If only a light cleanup is needed then emory paper and elbow grease is the best ticket. There will likely be the least amount of damage inflicted to the cylinder if it is done by hand. Think before you hone please.
Thank you,
Dave Reed
Otto Gas Engine Works
2167 Blue Ball Road
Elkton MD 21921-3330
phone 410-398-7340 http://www.pistonrings.net
http://www.pistonring.net
Dave:

When I put my 2 HP Jack of All Trades back together, I looked for my hone and it decided it got lost in the move or was hiding . I ended up just kinda giving it a lick and a promise with 180 grit and kerosene to get rid of -some- of the approximately 80 years accumulation of crud that got into the jug and roughened the surface while it sat on the shelf.

I re-used the original rings (pinned in place). Before I ran it, the compression was weak but it started right up and, after a couple of hours running (some under load while I steel wooled the flywheel rims), it has great compression and runs great.

When I was a kid, Dad and I overhauled our lawn mowers, Gravely tractors and a Model A or two. Never did more than -file- out the ridges. New rings went right in the glazed bores. Sure the Briggs and Gravely engines smoked some for a while but, after a good lawn mowing or ploughing, the smoke went away.

I guess I should say that we didn't have chrome rings which I don't think would break-in in a glazed bore. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think I can safely say that, as easy as these engines are to take apart, if the bore is a little rough, just put it together with the old rings, start it up and pour on the oil. If, after an hour or so of running, the compression's really bad, take it apart and put in new rings. If all the clearances are okay, it should be fine. After all, we aren't working them hard.

Oh, yes - it's easy to take metal out but really not fun to put it back.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth (and worth what you paid).

Take care - Elden
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Old 06-07-2005, 11:45:23 PM
Dick Welty Dick Welty is offline
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Default Re: Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

Fairbanks Kid,

I would like to take credit for the plastic paint can idea but alas it was someone elses idea.

As I said I think it was someone on the SmokStak that was working in a really big engine who used a 5 Gallon plastic paint bucket which happened to fit close enough to the bore that with abrasive paper of some kind it did the job.

Most of my ideas are either someone elses or adaptations of someone elses.

Ocassionally I do come up with something that is original or at least that I think is original.

Years ago when I was quite young a good friend said "Dick you are an inexhaustable resevour of useless information". Because this was a good friend I took that as a compliment.

Anyway this SmokStak forum is truley a goldmine of usefull information. I sometime read the archives and almost always read something that I file away in my memory for future use.

I think that if more users learned how to use the search feature better they would not only answer their own questions but in their search they would learn some tricks that would be usefull in the future.

Half of the advise that I so freely give is the result of things that I have learned on this forum.

Remember MY Free advise is worth what you pay for it.

Thanks Harry for this INEXHAUSTABLE RESEVOUR USEFULL INFORMATION.

Dick
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Old 06-08-2005, 06:24:10 AM
bimjy bimjy is offline
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Default Re: Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

small blocks of wood fastened in place of stone on your hone and staple sanding paper to side of block so it fits over honing edge of block. If you take your time and run drill slow you can run almost any size blocks. I went up to 10.75" Jim
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Old 06-08-2005, 06:54:24 AM
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Luke Tonneberger Luke Tonneberger is offline
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Default Re: Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

It was Keith Kinney that made the cylinder hone out of a bucket. About a quarter of the way down on this page:

http://www.herculesengines.com/Superior%2025HP/

Luke Tonneberger
Rockford, Michigan
USA
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Old 06-08-2005, 08:58:14 AM
Kevin O. Pulver Kevin O. Pulver is offline
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Default Re: Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

Chris, I did the coffee can, and sandpaper bit on my 7 1/2" bore. I used chunks of foam rubber under the layers of sandpaper to push them out against the bore. It worked good. You can have the one I made if you stop by.Kevin
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Old 06-08-2005, 09:20:55 AM
Jim Scott
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Default Re: Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

chris, i have found a supplier for the old ball hones. he says he can get them up to 16 in. i have bought several different sizes from him. i think the largest i have bought is 5.5in. and it was about 80.00.i am assuming the larger they are the more they cost. if you would like his name let me know. jim
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Old 06-08-2005, 04:59:36 PM
Kevin O. Pulver Kevin O. Pulver is offline
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Default Re: Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

The ball hone would sure be better than the rigid hone from the horror story that Pistonring just gave us. I say go with the ball hone. Lightly! Kevin
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Old 06-09-2005, 10:41:54 PM
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Smile Re: Where can I get a big cylinder hone???

Wow! Thanks for all the replies. You've given me some things to consider. The can idea might be something to try. I wouldn't mind having a good glaze breaker on the shelf if one could be had for around that $100 figure. Snap-on only wanted $75, but they don't carry them now.

We don't hone that many 8" & 10" bores, but it does come up once in a while. I've seen the big prices on the gear adjustable rigid hones from Sunnen, but I really only need a simple glaze breaker or ball hone. The bore I'm looking at right now is pretty nice, no real pits or wear to worry about. If they're too bad, it's usually best to bore & sleeve. I just want to polish this up a little for the new rings. Our smaller hone really leaves them nice.

Ken,

The 15-30 Rumely got buried under other projects the past couple years. We don't seem to get to far on it! The engine is pretty much all overhauled. Just need to do a few days of tuning & assembly & hopefully it will take off. The tractor has been apart for about six years now. The joke around here is that the second 15-30 F we just bought is a map to show how to put the other one back together! If we didn't have to do this farming thing, we'd probably get more done. So if you have any spare time, you can come help us work on it!

Thanks again guys!

Chris
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