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Antique Gas Engine Discussion

camp gas


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  #1  
Old 06-11-2005, 07:15:40 AM
DanR
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Question camp gas

A friend and engine expert told me he uses camping gas in all his engines. Coleman fuel or generic kind sold at W/M. He says that it doesn't smell bad little or no smoke and wont drive you out of the barn if the engine is started inside. Burns clean and won't varnish if not used. Any thoughts on this?
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Old 06-11-2005, 07:47:38 AM
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Mike in NC Mike in NC is offline
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Default Re: camp gas

Dan, search the archives. It has been brought up several times before.

Archive Search of "Coleman Gas"
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  #3  
Old 06-11-2005, 09:04:57 AM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Default Re: camp gas

In my experience, naptha (Coleman fuel and its W-M generic twin) works very well on low compression flywheel engines. Smells good, too!

Take care - Elden
http://home.cybertron.com/~edurand
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  #4  
Old 06-11-2005, 11:33:52 AM
Dick Welty Dick Welty is offline
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Default Re: camp gas

I just use California regular and it works fine and while it's not cheep, got up to $2.55 gal. Now down to $2.15 gal. in Temecula, it is probably cheaper than white gas, paint thinner, or charcoal lighter.

I do think that since gas varies regionally your experiences are going to be different with gasahol and who knows what but while California gas is notorius for being tampered with by the tree huggers and their cronies in Sacremento, I still get satisfactory use out of it.

I don't run my engines inside the barn for more that a few seconds and even then if I add a little caster oil to the gas it just makes the place smell heavenly.

I guess I'm just cheap but I spend what I save on fuel to buy more parts to get another engine running.

I love the fact that we all have different experiences that we can share so that readers can pick and choose what path they want to take.
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  #5  
Old 06-11-2005, 08:00:02 PM
Dennis
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Default Re: camp gas

Dan,I use Ozark brand camp fuel(Wal-Mart cheap brand) in my 1917 Fuller & Johnson 1 1/2 hp "N" and it works great! I constantly get remarks at shows on how clean this engine runs and smells.

I would never suggest to run an engine indoors even using camp fuel though.
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Old 06-20-2005, 01:28:41 PM
John G John G is offline
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Default Re: camp gas

The carcon monoxide is the danger when running an engine indoors, and that can kill you. Carbon monoxide is a colorless odorless gas.

John
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Old 06-20-2005, 01:58:54 PM
Dewey Dewey is offline
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Default Re: camp gas

I read somehwere a while back that lead was placed in gasolene to cushion the valve seats, when unleaded gas came out, engines without hardened valve seats would become defective (over time) unless a lead substitute was placed in the fuel. I wonder how running the "white gas" would affect those pre-1970s engine over the long term?
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Old 06-20-2005, 02:40:20 PM
Fairbanks Kid Fairbanks Kid is offline
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Default Re: camp gas

This is a really fun topic so here go's my 2 and 1/2 cents worth. I used the little F&M 1 1/2hp kerosene engine to try out some different fuels. I already used the kerosene before and enjoy it because of the light smoke it makes for smoke rings. The second was Coleman fuel (white gas) and I thought that was really good because it was clean burning and ran smooth. Because Im located in the southwest, Coleman fuel runs about $6.50 a gal. Then I tried a little diesel for fun but dont advise it beacause it backfires and is hard to get started. Also in one of my old engine manuals it notes: (engine may be run on engine distillant) but I think that may be the same as kerosene? I dont think I ever tried lighter fluid? The kind you use for the bar b que? Not sure if it would combust? Take care
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Old 06-20-2005, 02:45:29 PM
KidDynamo KidDynamo is offline
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Default Re: camp gas

Regarding the valve seats, I rebuilt a pair of small block Chevy marine engines for my Dad a few years ago. These engines get quite a workout so I asked my automotive machinist who is very experienced, if I should have stellite valves seats installed.

He said NOT to do it until the need surfaced. In otherwords, the heads could be rebuilt and run for quite a long time without any problems and then if the seats deteriorated, install hard seats at that time. He acknowledged that no-lead gas was all these engines would ever run on but said it wouldn't be worth spending a lot of extra money when the existing seating surfaces in the heads were just fine, as they were. And guess what- the engines had been running no lead gas for some years, already.

Time has proved his advise sound, for this case. Perhaps if the engines were to be worked in a commercial installation in continuous service, the seats should be upgraded. That way, the engines wouldn't be down at critical times.

These hobby engines probably don't know the difference, anyway. They don't usually run much and the spring tension is very low, etc, etc. In most cases, I wouldn't install hard seats unless the seat is already shot.

I realize there are some other differences between white gas and unleaded automotive gas, but I suspect the logic runs pretty much on parallel lines.
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Old 06-20-2005, 03:01:28 PM
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Default Re: camp gas

When these engines were new, there was no leaded gas.
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  #11  
Old 06-20-2005, 03:39:45 PM
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Andre Blanchard Andre Blanchard is offline
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Default Re: camp gas

Here is and interesting history on gasoline.
http://www.radford.edu/~wkovarik/pap...lconflict.html
Not much has changed in the last 90 years.
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Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
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  #12  
Old 06-20-2005, 03:45:25 PM
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Andre Blanchard Andre Blanchard is offline
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Default Re: camp gas

This link for the main page.
http://www.radford.edu/~wkovarik/ethylwar/
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Andre' B.
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Old 06-20-2005, 10:00:44 PM
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Default Re: camp gas

I switched my engines over to Wal-Mart Ozark Trail Lantern Fuel/Camp gas last fall and I haven't looked back since. They run better, they start better, they run cooler, and they are smokless. I add a tablespoon of Marvel Mystery Oil to the gallon can when I open it and that is all I do to it. I left the fuel purposely in 3 engine's over the winter and all three started up this spring and ran fine. I then drained the fuel and it went right back in the tank after inspection and smelling and no gummimg whatsoever. I have one engine that I always had to work at to start it, but with this fuel it starts right off and runs fine. Works for me. Paul Hokanson
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Old 06-20-2005, 10:33:49 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: camp gas

Yes, there was no Tetra ethyl lead in gas in the 'old days' ! No lead fuel was the norm. These engines were not high speed engines, and were also of low 5 to 6 :1 comp ratios, the need was not there. If anything, lead tended to foul things up! The new gas (if you can call it that) uses sulfur for valve lubrication, instead of the lead. (thats where acid rain comes from) As for camp fuel - if you are in a relatively dry state - Texas, New Mexico etc., there probably won't be a problem using it, but in a cool, or relatively humid state - watch out! Camp fuel is hydroscopic - that is , it attracts water. The water attracted will settle to the bottom of the fuel tank, combine with the fuel, and dilute it, and will also make a corrosive mix that will eat thru the steel fuel tank in a relatively short time. This fuel will also attract moisture on the valve faces, stems and the cylender walls, if the fuel is not shut off during shut-down. It will also tend to wash off more oil from the cylender walls during the engine's shut down coasting. It may smell nice, but I would not recommend breathing it for any length of time! Besides CO, you have oxides of nitrogen to contend with. Nasty Stuff!
Andrew
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Old 06-21-2005, 01:25:09 AM
Dick Welty Dick Welty is offline
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Smile Re: camp gas

John G,

While your statement,

"The carcon monoxide is the danger when running an engine indoors, and that can kill you. Carbon monoxide is a colorless odorless gas."

is certainly true but It struck me as funny because when I run most of my engines the exhaust is far from colorless or odorless.

But I do agree that a little exhaust inhaled goes a long way and most of us can't say "I didn"t inhale."

Thanks for the reminder, a little safety also goes a long way.
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  #16  
Old 06-21-2005, 06:06:15 AM
Alan in KY
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Default Re: camp gas

my engines run much better on w/m white gas the ole stover when hot and shut off to turn down the rod cup will start back up by just rolling it over as to the water problem it ran in the pouring rain all day at the irvine show and never got water in the gas. if white gas collects water then someone better tell my engines to quit running on water
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Old 06-21-2005, 07:21:48 AM
John G John G is offline
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Default Re: camp gas

Dick Welty,

You are right. But there is a lot more stuff in exhaust than CO. If it were just CO, you would not smell it, and what fun would that be?

I switched to white gas this year, and am very happy with it. However, my Johnny Boy is far from smokeless. A good puff of smoke just lets you know it is putting happily.

John
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Old 06-22-2005, 06:50:09 PM
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Default Re: camp gas

Camp gas octane is 55. Distillates or most gas before the war octane was around 40. They don't distill gas any more they crack it. Most old engines of the era had a compression of if you were lucky 6, most engines were a lot less at around 3 or 4 to 1. My Titan (1914) when the piston is at top dead center almost looks like I could put my fist in between the piston and head. I haven't figured the ratio but it ain't much.Engines I see running on camp gas run smother and start easier. The water attraction I don't think is a problem if you keep the tank full, but as with any fuel all precaution should be taken to keep moisture out of your tank. I use lamp fuel and Marvel Mystery Oil or some use WD-40. 1 table spoon per gal is good, but both burn like fuel so mix as you like. This is still one of the most interesting topics I read and sounds like a few are starting to convert to lantern fuel. I got started using it because it was recommended to run in a model engine I had. It worked so well I tried it in my JD "E" . It is my experience that the lower the octane the quicker the fuel ignites. That is why low grade fuel has to have the the timing retarted. If not the fuel fires to quickly and causes knock and poor performance. This is always a good subject and I enjoy reading and posting comments. So just adding some fuel to the fire and my 2 cents worth. So everybody have fun in a great hobby and hope all have a safe show season. Fred
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Old 06-23-2005, 05:54:30 AM
Alan in KY
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Default Re: camp gas

only thing i dont like about white gas is when i get my 4hp stover running ill have to get a second morgage to fill up the tank it must hold five gallons lol
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