Generators and Motors
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Vintage Electrical Equipment > Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion > Onan Generators
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Onan Generators Restoring, operating and maintaining vintage Onan generators.

Onan Generators

Onan 30EK ? help


this thread has 30 replies and has been viewed 7768 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-28-2007, 11:56:26 PM
jonpounder jonpounder is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ontario Canada
Posts: 11
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Onan 30EK ? help

I'm new to the forum and have read over many of the posts tonight with great interest. There are a few of you guys who really seem to know your stuff and I'm hoping you can answer a few questions for me as well. Sorry for the length of the post, but it was an exciting day finally getting it off the truck today

I am the recent purchaser of what I am 99% sure is a 30EK...., based on pictures I have found which look identical to what I have. However I have been over the thing with a fine toothed comb and there is no model or serial number on the generator as a whole. There is on the engine itself (ford inline 6), and there is something inside the magnacitor.

How can I identify which exact model it is ?

I have already got the UR manuals on order which have been mentioned here so I am hoping I got the right ones. I am not sure all I need to know will be in there though.

- how to tell if its a reconnectible stator (120/208 wye currently)
(I peeked in the end bell but it looks pretty varnished up to me)
- its 1/0 wiring which seems a tad overkill for 30kw is there some other similar model that is a bit larger power but the same physical size ?
- any info on the actual natural gas requirements ? other than it being a 3/4" pipe to the zero governor and impco 200 mixer, that is about all I have to go on - mixer specs rate it at 345cfh at 2mm/Hg but that is not really much to go on for the real requirement of the engine in this configuration.
- mine has what I'll call a "wet header" on it, and I have seen photos of at least one other like it on ebay, its like a combined intake exhaust header with a water jacket of some sort all rolled into one box - any sort of magical purpose to this other than to cool the exhaust ? Should waterflow be on all the time or for cold starts does it serve to preheat the intake as well ?
- mine was setup for remote rad or city water cooling, any thing to watch for when converting back to radiator and fan ? any suggestions on stock parts from a vehicle I can get used at an auto wrecker ?
- anyone care to give me an overview of the start sequence for this thing and how a magnaciter does its thing ? Is adding a more modern start controller with multiple crank attempts, cooldown, etc., advisable ? I don't see enough relays inside to make me think what's there now has this sort of thing already. There doesn't appear to have been a gas solenoid on the installation, so at the very least I need to come up with a signal to drive that from.
- it looks like someone added on a coolant heater to the plumbing, but the way its setup in series with what looks like a city water solenoid makes no sense to me since with the generator not running no water would circulate and the heat would never actually get to the generator. Anyone have any thoughts as to the purpose of this ?

Thanks in advance, I know at least one of you guys knows the answers I am looking for.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 03-29-2007, 06:45:21 AM
Gunny Gunny is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,769
Thanks: 1,718
Thanked 1,666 Times in 1,043 Posts
Default Re: 30EK ? help

Post some pictures and I'm sure we can help you with a lot of information.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-29-2007, 08:22:52 AM
Elden DuRand's Avatar
Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
In Memory Of
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Port St. Joe, Florida, USA
Posts: 7,833
Thanks: 13,121
Thanked 7,897 Times in 2,967 Posts
Images: 11
Default Re: 30EK ? help

Jon:

I think your genset is from a boat. They usually have the water jacketed manifolds and cool from either a seawater heat exchanger or from freshwater.

I can't help on your other questions, though.

Take care - Elden
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-29-2007, 09:33:10 AM
jonpounder jonpounder is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ontario Canada
Posts: 11
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 30EK ? help

Here are some photos, I can get some better ones of specific parts tomorrow if anyone wants to see something more clearly.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	gen_1.jpg
Views:	545
Size:	30.9 KB
ID:	17838   Click image for larger version

Name:	gen_2.jpg
Views:	423
Size:	26.4 KB
ID:	17839   Click image for larger version

Name:	gen_3.jpg
Views:	497
Size:	30.6 KB
ID:	17840   Click image for larger version

Name:	gen_4.jpg
Views:	381
Size:	31.8 KB
ID:	17841  
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-29-2007, 07:50:29 PM
Jim Rankin Jim Rankin is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Faunsdale, Alabama USA
Posts: 4,436
Thanks: 71
Thanked 1,185 Times in 967 Posts
Default Re: 30EK ? help

I think you are probably right on the ID or at least close enough to go on with. I have a Winpower set powered by a 300 cubic inch Ford engine that is rated 45kW standby, so it could possibly be that big. Unfortunately, it was probably tagged on the enclosure and that has been removed at some point and now you are left without the numbers.

We also have an ONAN on a Cummins diesel that is about that same age, and I will look and see if I can find the tag location on it. I think the cranking cycle controller etc may have been in a separate control enclosure like the one we have. It includes a battery charger and milliammeter, hour meter etc. and has the Stop, Test, Crank, ??? switch (4 positions, can't remember just what they are)

You probably have a 4 lead set, not reconnectable. You could look into the end of the generator where those removable hand hole covers are and make sure, but if there are only 4 leads out, L-123 and N, then that's it.

If you do decide to use it with a radiator, I would leave the exhaust manifold dry to lessen the size of the radiator needed. Or go to a salvage yard and get an intake and exhaust and replace it. The water jacketed manifolds keep the surrounding area a lot cooler whether it was in a generator room in a building or on a boat. As for a radiator, look for a downflow radiator if you can find one. Most recent automotive types will be crossflow and will be realtively short and wide, which doesn't fit too well with the proportions of the housing. I cannot see the front of the engine too well, but most Ford Industrial engines had a flat fan mount on the front of the head for the "High fan" hub and bearing which you could come up with quite easily from Ford or you could use an automotive fan on the waterpump. Look at the crankshaft pulley and see if there is an extra groove several inches out from the alternator belt groove for the belt of the high mounted fan.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-29-2007, 08:00:22 PM
Gunny Gunny is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,769
Thanks: 1,718
Thanked 1,666 Times in 1,043 Posts
Default Re: 30EK ? help

Yup 30 EK

Generator end is a Magneciter

Engine is a Ford with a water cooled exhaust manifold

It appears that it at one time had a radiator, shroud and mount is there.

Can you tell if it was city water cooled? This means that there was a solenoid valve that turned on the water when the engine ran, it just ran water through the engine and down a drain. If so, I'd leave this machine right where it was as the interior of the engine is rusted/rotted/corroded to the point of being worthless by this time.
It may have had a remote radiator, that would be good. It may also have been cooled with a heat exchanger, also good. Is there antifreeze in the cooling system? That would be a good sign. No idea why someone would plumb a heater in with city water.
Yes those things were equipped with the capability of being started remotely. Look inside the control panel, you should find 3 terminals close together marked B+, RMT and Grnd. With the control panel switch in auto, jumpering between RMT and B+ should make it go.
I'd consider a dry exhaust manifold for your engine, junk yards are full of Fords. Get a radiator while you're there too.
Gas solenoid should be powered off of the B26 terminal on the side of the engine. Positive side of the coil will work too.
You could replace the control system with something more modern, ECU, Panel Source are just 2 that come to mind.
Look at the amount of wires coming out of the generator end, if 12, you're in luck, can be configured for any typical voltage scheme, if 4, well, have to see what happens when it runs but would think that with 1/0 it probably is 120/240 single.
Make it runs and be sure you have output voltage before investing too much time and trouble.
From appearance would guess it to be mid '60's to an early '70 year model.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-29-2007, 11:44:33 PM
jonpounder jonpounder is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ontario Canada
Posts: 11
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 30EK ? help

The previous owner said it had a remote rad, and it looks like that was probably not its original configuration due to the radiator shroud still in place. There is a solenoid on the water line but its also plumbed through the ford water pump, and there is the heater I mentioned, solenoid was not run off the generator at all, wires went elsewhere - doesn't make much sense to me overall, and there are still a few unaccounted for ends on the plumbing.

My first step is going to be firing it up to see how it runs - does anyone know roughly what the gas demand of it is, and what range of supply pressure it will work with, without changing the zero governor (or whatever term onan uses for the regulator that regulates down to atmospheric right before the mixer) ?

Also, on the generator side of things has anyone actually been successful separating out the internal wiring and reconfiguring 120/208/3 as 120/240/1 ? Its definately 4 lead coming from the generator proper, but I can't tell enough internally without taking a lot more apart than I want to right now.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-30-2007, 11:38:12 AM
Gunny Gunny is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,769
Thanks: 1,718
Thanked 1,666 Times in 1,043 Posts
Default Re: 30EK ? help

Gas pressure should be in the 7 to 11" of water column. Don't have my manuals here at the house so could only guess at the required volume.

With no data tag, hard to say what the design out put voltage is. A 4 wire machine still might be 120/240 single with 2 hot, neutral and a ground but probably is 120/208 3 phase in which case it is still useful. Just not as efficient. 277/480 is not as good but still useable, you'll just need a transformer.

If it had a remote radiator, you should be in good shape. Get rid of the solenoid and get a radiator on there. Looks like you'll need a fan too. A fan for automotive use is a puller, you will need a pusher and no, turning a puller over doesn't make it a pusher.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-30-2007, 12:36:31 PM
jonpounder jonpounder is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ontario Canada
Posts: 11
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 30EK ? help

I think based on the voltmeter on it and wire size, its definately in the 208/240 line/line voltage range, not 480. It definately looks to be 3phase since the black wires leading out that were cut off were tagged red blue black.

I have a spec sheet for a more modern version of the 30EK - it says 515cfh of gas - does that sound about right ? (engine on that one is a ford 6 300cuin).

The newer specs also actually call the 50Hz version the 30EK and the 60Hz version is the 35EK which would explain the larger than expected wire size. Would this have been the case with the older ones as well ?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-30-2007, 01:11:24 PM
Jeff J Jeff J is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: lancaster ma. usa
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Onan 30EK ? help

Just my $.02 Look at the upside down regulator, probably doesn't have a spring in it which would indicate L/P conversion. What is the rotary switch for? Is it labeled a,b,c,this would mean 3 phase. They probably put a solenoid in the coolant loop to stop convection of the blockheater so it wouldn't heat the whole loop, that would burn out the heater sooner and cost big $$$$ to run. Some of the unknown plumbing may have been for venting the cooling system. On most remote radiators the engine is usually vented to the expansion tank to remove air from the system and create a small flow in the tank so when additives or make up coolant is added it will enter the system. Just my opinion but I would leave the wet exsaust as gas engines run high temps. If you get me the engine model # I can probably get you the correct timing spec for LP or nat gas as they are different. What are you going to use for fuel? hope this helps Jeff.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
30ek-15r/9977c Rapaneque Onan Generators 8 10-13-2009 10:12:42 PM
Onan 30EK Question karen ibara Onan Generators 6 08-04-2007 09:55:22 AM
Onan 30EK-4XR/6640 corsairnh Onan Generators 3 12-22-2006 07:29:33 AM
30EK-5DR/1601a help me ID AlchemyMike Onan Generators 5 08-14-2005 11:57:42 PM
Onan 30EK-5DR8/7796A 4 Wire? waynger Onan Generators 16 01-27-2005 03:19:30 AM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:32:18 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2016 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277