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Antique Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Antique Gas Engine Discussion

Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA


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  #1  
Old 12-05-2007, 07:17:43 PM
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Default Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

Hi

I joined this forum back in October 07 because I have been interested in Hit & Miss Engines for a couple of years now. I spread the word around that I wanted a small engine to restore. Well I got a call that one was available in Santa Barbara (about 30 miles north). Called the seller .... already sold ... party to pick it next week. Darn!! A few weeks go by another call ... the deal fell through so we drove up there and picked it up a few days later.

The picture shows what I have and what came with it .... not sure that all the extra items belong to this Stover ... time will tell.

This Stover (KA195078) was built in 1928 according to a serial number/date built list which agrees with the date that is on the block ... February 1928.

I really wanted a Hit & Miss, but since picking it up I have learned that it might not be a Hit & Miss, that it could be a Throttling Governing type, but that's okay I will still get it running!

I contacted Hit and Miss Enterprises and spoke with Anthony, he suggested that I start out with the KA manual/parts list and a booklet by F.B. Wright "The Small Single-Cylinder Gas Engine" to get me started. Since then I searched this forum on the Stover engine ... lots of good information.

So here what I will be doing ...

Take pictures, remove parts, take pictures, log the parts, asking questions, asking more questions, sandblast them, prime and paint. Either buy new parts or machine new ones depending on cost, complexity and availability.

I'm hoping that forum members will jump in and help me stay out of trouble!

So ... off I go to remove the Flywheels that certainly will reduce some weight!

I will be posting my progress here (short version) and on my web page http://phutcheson.net under Projects ... Stover Restoration. (It will be a few days before I can update the site with the Stover page.)

Any thoughts, advise or questions?
If anyone needs pictures or information about my KA just let me know!

Thanks,

Pat H


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  #2  
Old 12-05-2007, 07:59:44 PM
Ironman Ironman is offline
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

For starters, your engine appears to have a detent arm on it which would confirm that it is a hit and miss engine. Stover built the KA engines in both hit and miss and throttle governed versions. The throttle governed engines did not use a detent lever.

The square shaped magneto with the brass outer cover is the correct style of magneto for your engine. It is a Wico EK magneto. The one pictured is obviously far from being complete. There are plenty of EK magnetos out there so locating one should be very easy.

The magneto that has the horseshoe shaped magnets on it is a Webster magneto, and is a "bonus" item because you can sell it and put the money you get for it towards buying a complete Wico magneto.

Take a picture from the head end of the engine and post it here. It is hard to tell, but I believe that the engine is missing the carburetor (mixer). The one pictured in the group of parts appears to be a Briggs & Stratton or other small engine carb.

Looks like the exhaust lever and bracket might be correct.

Other than the aforementioned items, I believe the rest of what you will need will be minor items like springs, gaskets, etc. Reproduction crankguards are available, as well as reproduction mufflers. Reproduction springs are also available, as well as head gaskets and carb gaskets.

Try contacting Starbolt Engine Supplies (you can email them through their link on the SPONSORS page on this website) in regard to any parts that you might need. I believe they should have anything you need except for a carb.

If you need part numbers for anything before you get a parts book let me know. I have an original parts book in my filing cabinet. Also, I believe that I might even have a correct carb.

Lastly, it's purely your choice, but I would not personally recommend sandblasting the engine parts. Sand gets in the porous parts of the castings and can find its way out later and could cause wear. With an engine that small, you should easily be able to clean it up nicely by using a wire cup brush in an angle grinder, using a wire wheel on a bench grinder, and small wire wheels that you can chuck in a drill. I've restored MANY engines by using wire brushes and wire wheels to clean the parts.
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  #3  
Old 12-05-2007, 08:24:33 PM
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Ray Cardoza Ray Cardoza is online now
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

The carby is off of a briggs but im not sure what series.
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  #4  
Old 12-05-2007, 09:02:05 PM
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

Ironman,

Thanks for the information.

Attached is close up of the Head (it is a thumbnail)... I don't see any type of mixer either.

Glad hear the it should be a H&M!

I want to discuss the rust removal process more in detail, but must get ready for a CNC class.

Ray ... yes that carb was just thrown in at the last minute !!

So I will continue this tomorrow.

Pat H.

By the way ... I'm able to post the pictures as thumbnails but how do get the outline and notation like the other threads?


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  #5  
Old 12-05-2007, 09:27:20 PM
Nathan K. Nathan K. is offline
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

HI Pat,
Looking at your photos I don't think the carb., fuel tank, or the magneto with loop magnets(end plate missing,it may be sitting by the other mag), are for your engine. It looks like your engine had a Wico EK magneto the remains(box with wires coming out) looks like they made it in to a coil box Parts are still available for them. I think there is a fuel mixer on ebay that may fit your
engine. Hope this helps. Nathan.
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  #6  
Old 12-07-2007, 05:34:52 AM
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

Nathen,

The only carb/mixer on ebay that I have found so far is for the CT1 ...don't know if that one will fit or not. The one I'm looking for I believe will be marked with a 125K2 for the H&M; according to Stover Manual / Parts List L62 (from Hit & Miss Enterprises). What .... you don't like my BLUE fuel tank?

Ironman ...

You mentioned that you may have the correct carb for my KA. Can you provide details and maybe a close up picture? Email me costs.

Now about sandblasting ...

What I had in mind was sandblasting (sand or other abrasives) the surfaces that did not touch, for example .... the flywheels, parts of the head, frame etc.
But not any linkage, cylinder walls, piston etc. Of course those areas would have to be well masked off ... I hear the blasting gets material everywhere. And finally picking out the correct abrasives, all this is to be determined.

Maybe another concern would be that the sand would prevent a good paint job if it stayed in the porous of the casting.

Ken Stuempges reconditioned a Stover KA back in 2003 see his web site at http://www.thehermitsmachineshop.com/Index.html

So I'm not sure yet ... I really want this to be a good lasting restoration and do not want problems later on ... so blasting may not be the way to go. Your method sounds like it will be (and has been) very good. So the work done would be worth that extra effort.


Looks like the Wico EK may be the biggest issue I have ... so I will start looking into what it will take to either rebuild the near empty box I have or buy a reconditioned one.


Hope to have my page up this weekend .. with lots of pictures.


Thanks again,

Pat H
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  #7  
Old 12-07-2007, 11:18:33 AM
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

Congrats on the Stover I just got a KA running for the club I bleong too, was in better shape then yours. The one I got running was a throttler had linkage that goes up to the mixer. They are a nice running engine.

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  #8  
Old 12-07-2007, 05:56:01 PM
Randy Gauny Randy Gauny is offline
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

this is on a THe Kid pumping unit maybe some helpClick image for larger version

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  #9  
Old 12-07-2007, 10:43:47 PM
Nathan K. Nathan K. is offline
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

HI,
I found the mixer that I was thinking of, I looked and it's for a throttle gov. engine so no good. Nothing wrong with the tank, just tank/engine combo?.
If it was my engine I would just clean it and spray some diesel on it, It makes a great historic looking engine that you can belt up without living in fear of a scratch. Nathan.
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  #10  
Old 12-10-2007, 03:07:12 PM
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

Okay ... my web site page for the restoration project is now on line http://phutcheson.net click Projects then Restoration ... Stover Hit and Miss Engine. There are lots of detailed pictures ... as the project moves along I will update with new information and of course pictures.

If you have any questions, comments or helpful information please post them here or email me direct.

Nathen ... no way will that very ugly gas tank will ever be mounted my Stover!!
Thanks for looking for the mixer. Did it have a part number on it? I think I'm looking for one that has part number 125K2 (the new Symbol #) or 7005K (Old #).
Can anybody confirm these numbers?

I think for my 1st HM I will paint it, let the new owner in 100 years or so keep it ancient looking.

FarmallIH Great You Tube clip ... thanks.

Randy ... Thanks for the picture ... it all helps.


Here's my next step ... search the forum for Primer information, paint will come later. As I remove the rust I need to protect the surface as soon as possible. No use letting rust come back!

Also I will looking for the mixer and WECO EK (either a rebuilt unit or the parts).

This should keep be busy for the next week or so ...


Thanks,

Pat H
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  #11  
Old 12-10-2007, 11:32:03 PM
HBurk HBurk is offline
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

Pat,
In my opinion, which in the final analysis is absolutely worthless, it is not good to lift an engine with a chain through the flywheels like that.
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  #12  
Old 12-11-2007, 02:41:44 AM
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

Point well taken. I was worried about it when we picked it up ... but was assured it would do no harm ... it won't happen again.

Thanks for the input,


Pat H
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Old 12-11-2007, 08:04:09 AM
Ray Freeman Ray Freeman is offline
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

I've recently done up one of these. Everything was rusted solid. I rebored the cylinder and put in a sleeve. The piston was OK and I made new rings. The valves had rusted beyond repair. I used new V6 GM valves. The Stover stems are 5/16 and the GM valves were 8mm.I had the guides reamed to suit the new valves and the seats recut to suit. I had to cut the stems to length and drilled to take the retainer pin. The stems were very hard and carbide drills wouldn't touch it.The Wico I had rebuilt and the rest of it was just patience and elbow grease.
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Old 12-11-2007, 11:39:39 PM
Nathan K. Nathan K. is offline
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

HI Pat,
I think this may be the one your looking for, no 7005K, hope the links work
Nathan.

Item number: 310005658479
http://______________/MIXER-FOR-2HP-...QQcmdZViewItem
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  #15  
Old 12-17-2007, 02:46:32 AM
Steve B Steve B is offline
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

Can any of you Stover owners tell me what kind of oiler the KA came with originally? My KA didn't have one when I bought it and it is one of the things I need to get before I can get it going.

Steve
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  #16  
Old 12-17-2007, 06:36:20 PM
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

Nathan,

Missed out on Mixer ... so I'm still looking. Thanks


Steve,

according to the Repair List the oiler has a part number of 506K1 (Cylinder Lubricator), but there seems to be a lot of different types that may work.


Let me know what you find .. the Oiler that came with mine was pulled from a drawer, it is labeled Michigan Lubricator Co. .So I will not know if it will work.


Pat H
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Old 12-17-2007, 08:48:22 PM
Derek Pollard Derek Pollard is offline
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

NATHAN K hi I just got a very nice Stover KE lots of original paint nice decal and tag but the nice thing for a Canadian is a large brass tag onthe crank cover that reads IMPERIAL SERVICE MOTOR T EATON CO.CANADA thought I would share that with you DEREK
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Old 12-17-2007, 10:11:52 PM
Nathan K. Nathan K. is offline
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

HI Derek,
That sounds like a nice find, those nice originals are getting harder to find. I have a 1921 1 1/2HP K that was sold by t eaton, the tag is shaped like a stover tag but doesn't say stover at all.

pat,
One of the sponsors might have a mixer for you, they turn up now and then.
Nathan.
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:27:41 PM
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

It has been a while since I have had a chance to work on my Stover project ... but I'm working on it now.

I found a previous repair that I thinking about re-repairing. As shown in the photo a brass bushing has been pressed in for the CAM/Gear shaft. There is about a 0.020" slop in the mating parts ... that causes the CAM gear to wobble a lot. I'm thinking about removing the bushing, braze the crack and installing a new phosphor bronze bushing. Also the CAM/Gear Shaft needs smoothing out ... removing rust and scratches. Thought about using 2000 grit paper for that.

What you think?

Another fix in mind ...

The large pin (Rocker Arm Stud) ... press it out and replace with a new one. It has a lot of wear near the end ... see photo.


Finally ... Governor Spindle (bottom of photo ... 11k marking) was rusted solid in the bracket hole preventing any of the gears to rotate. I was able to free it up with WD40 and a little persuasion. After cleaning it spins good but the shaft is longer smooth. I can hone the hole and use 2000 grit on the shaft. Or maybe I should just leave it alone.


So these are the 3 things that need attention ... any thoughts or suggestions?

Although these repairs are for a Stover the fixes apply to any type of machines so anyone can jump in ...

If you need any additional information let me know. I will post it here or on my web site.

Thanks


Pat

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  #20  
Old 07-29-2008, 01:29:24 AM
CODY K CODY K is offline
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Default Re: Restoration Project Stover 2HP KA

Hi path i believe i have a mixer for your engine in a parts box i have, i will dig it out in a couple days, send me a message with your email so you are easier to get ahold of and so i dont forget cody
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