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1/3 Scale Case Boiler

b7100

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
I've started building a 1/3 scale Case boiler as per plans obtained from reduction engineering. I've been unable to find any information on the riveting of boilers of this size. The inside of the boiler is too small for a rivet gun if rivets are installed from the outside as per plan. Is there a special rivet gun or attachment for this application. What kind of rivets? Should they be heated? What steps do I take to prevent rust or leaking? Or is it possible to weld or braze the rivets on the inside to prevent leaking? Or should I just weld everything and use fake rivets. How are fake rivets installed? Any help would be appreciated.
 

Bob N

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
06/18/2019
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

Hi

I am not sure of your experience level at making a boiler, but I see you are in Mich. Just a suggestion, MI has very strict boiler laws for all boilers including models. Very detailed requirments on materials, proceedures etc. I suggest you get on their site if they have one. You could also contact this person who assisted in the writing of those laws to get some advice.

http://www.ridgeboiler.com/

I would not like to see you spend a lot of time and money only to find you could not use your engine. As you know boilers require special alloys, etc.

Here is another site to ask boiler questions, go to the live steam forum. It is mostly locomotives but a wealth of information.

http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/

Good luck those castings make a real nice engine.

Bob

---------- Post added at 07:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 AM ----------

HI

I forgot to mention that if you have not searched this board there is a wealth of information on building boilers and the 1/3 scale engine.

Bob
 

b7100

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I talked to a state boiler inspector before I started on this project. I was told that under certain dimensions the code does not apply. I don't remember the exact numbers but a 1/3 scale case falls within the specifications for a hobby boiler. Also steam pressure was to be kept under 100#. Was I given the wrong information?
 

b7100

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

Thanks for the replies. Michigan boiler rules state that code does not apply to miniature boilers. The definition on of miniature boiler is that it has a gross volume of under 5 cubic feet, under 20 square feet of heating surface and barrel diameter of less than 16". Also steam pressure is not to exceed 100#. I'm not sure how the volume of a steam engine is measured or the heating surface area is measured but thought this engine would fall into the miniature boiler definition. Does anyone know for sure if it does or not. I really need to know. I've been following all the posts on this forum and find them very informative. However they are for a welded boiler. I also checked out the home machinist forum and found that to be very helpful.
 

chrsbrbnk

Registered
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

my 2 cents, my guess it would be easier to get a boiler into a show if welded and used false rivets the code on miniatures might allow something but the guys who looks it over at the shows have to feel its safe also. It would be nicer to build it as close as possible with to a code boiler just for peace of mind and all. the reduction eng boiler has pretty small tubes for good draft like when steaming up from cold iron also I've got a bunch of suggestions about various pit falls in the prints. 100 psi is kinda low but it will still have a fair amount of power Chris
 

b7100

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I would like to have your input. I saw a boiler built by jonas stutsmas and really liked the looks of it. It looked like a riveted boiler but they may have been fake. At this point I have the throat sheet, backhead, and both ends of the firebox formed (flanged) as per the plans from reduction engineering. I realize this is going to be a huge undertaking and will push my skills to the limit but I am looking forward to that challenge. Any input would be very much appreciated.
 

KG1584

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/11/2019
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I think it would be impractical to rivet that small of a boiler. When dad did his 1/2 scale Baker boiler, he faked it by drilling the holes and counter sinking the hole on the inside, and putting a rivet in but with a short stem. We then heated it up and beat it into the countersink. Any protrusions were ground smooth. This allowed the Barrel and flanges for the backhead and throat sheet to slip in. The front flue sheet rivets are set just ahead of the sheet Attached is a link to the Steamsmith web page showing us working on the back of the wrapper. You can look at some other pics for a few ore detaisl

http://steamsmith.com/boiler_pic/boiler_rivet.jpg
 

Beth V

Moderator
Last Subscription Date
03/03/2018
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I would like to have your input. I saw a boiler built by jonas stutsmas and really liked the looks of it. It looked like a riveted boiler but they may have been fake. At this point I have the throat sheet, backhead, and both ends of the firebox formed (flanged) as per the plans from reduction engineering. I realize this is going to be a huge undertaking and will push my skills to the limit but I am looking forward to that challenge. Any input would be very much appreciated.
Give Jonas a ring and discuss it with him. He will put you on the right track.

Shoot Butch Vollmar a PM. He lives in Constantine.

Good Luck and build it well.

Beth
 

b7100

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I like the idea of using the short rivets and countersinking them. I was concerned with them leaking and rusting.I think a welded boiler would be better. I just like the looks of the rivets. I've just started to make a jig to form the crown sheet. I don 't have a press but I do have a bulldozer. Beth do you have contact information on the guy in Constantine? Thanks to everybody for all the input.
 

b7100

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I am getting closer to forming the wrapper. Its been pointed out to me that a larger firebox would improve the performance. I would consider lengthening the firebox but am concerned about the attachments. Does anyone have any ideas on this? Also the fluetubes are undersized. I noticed in the pictures Chris posted were larger and fewer. Anyone know what size/number/spacing works best.
 

b7100

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I have attached a photo of the flanged throat sheet, backhead and firebox ends along with the forming dies. It took about 6 tanks of oxygen, 3-20# tanks of propane about 20-6# lead hammers (recasted heads about 20 times) and a lot of sweat.
 

Attachments

b7100

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

Starting to form the wrapper. I used a 10" I beam with 2" bars spaced 11" between. That is a solid piece of round steel 9" in diameter with two rings cut from the barrel stock to increase the diameter. I picked it up with the hoist and dropped it (many times). If you don't have a press you have to come up with another plan. So far it seems to be working.
 

Attachments

Case Place

Subscriber
Age
74
Last Subscription Date
07/14/2019
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

Wow, what a labor intensive effort. Like you said, you have to do with what you have.. I did not realize that you could cold form pieces for a pressure vessel ?? Are you using PVQ (Pressure Vessel Quality) materials ?
Larry
 

b7100

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

Steel is 516 pvs. I'm following the book by Ralph Andres (How to Build a 4" Case Traction Engine). I also saw an engine built by Jonas Stutsman that I really liked the looks of that had parts formed ocver dies.. I think this is the way the real ones were built. Yes it is a lot of work but I'm hopimg that in the end it will be worth it.
 

Jeff Smith

Registered
Last Subscription Date
08/05/2018
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I would have to drop the forks of the fork lift or tractor on that chunck if I didn't have a press.
 

b7100

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

Wrapper sheet has been formed. My bending method worked but having a press would have been a lot easier.
 

b7100

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

Wrapper sheet has been formed to fit throat sheet and backhead. I've got a long way to go.
 

Attachments

b7100

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

boiler 005.jpgI've got the barrel laid out and fitted to the throat sheet. Tabs have been brazed on and trued in the lathe to aid in the alignment of the throatsheet and firebox with the barrel on assembly. Take note of the lead hammers used to form the different parts over dies.
 
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