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1910 minn on ebay

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LundMachineWorks

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05/01/2018
Then you can spend more more to have the bolts taken out of the tubesheet and rivets put back in, or be a feature on CNN!
 

Jeff Smith

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08/05/2018
LundMachineWorks said:
Then you can spend more more to have the bolts taken out of the tubesheet and rivets put back in, or be a feature on CNN!

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!!! :bonk: I did not look at it that hard when I saw it a few days ago on ebay because I am not in the market for a big engine. I did notice the welds and moved on, but after your comment I went back and noticed the bolts. I don't even know what to say other than get the check book ready or your running shoes!

Jeff Smith
 

GaarScott

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51
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05/26/2009
Jeff,

Besides noting the obvious in the bolts in place of rivets, did you take note that the entire tube sheet has been welded. I am not sure if there is any stress on the bolts as a result; not sure how an inspector would feel about bolts in place of rivets in lieu of the perimeter welding. I don't recall reading, was the repairs documented with that infamous 'R' stamp? Don't believe it said that they were or weren't. Serious bidders would for sure want these and maybe some additional questions answered before making a bid, I would at least.

Lawrence
 

Peter

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11/14/2013
You guys are pretty sharp, I did not notice those bolts. I wonder what kind of inspection program Kansas has too allow bolts on the boiler! So much for boasting of an inspection certificate, that repair is got be no good in the other 49 states. As fas as I know, that is a major (read hugh) no/no. There is nothing wrong with welding a section back into to flue sheet. I saw the work done at Dillon Boiler. The difference is after the weld is done it is ground flush and almost invisible. No voids no undercuts, perfect. And naturally rivets were used. Dillon was the first company in the USA to sucessfully build an all steel boiler and be granted insurance for same. Prior to Dillon, boilers were iron plate or uninsurable. Thats over 150yrs in business building boilers.
 

Ken Majeski

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Last Subscription Date
12/10/2019
I noticed the bolts when I posted the Ebay number about a week ago.

I would geuss that the flue sheet was welded to the barrel prior to putting in the strap and the bolts. This was probably done years ago and was passed by the inspector at the time and is now grandfathered as long as the engine is in Kansas... I would say if the engine went to other states there would be a BIG Problem.:(

We have a couple engines in this area where they have replaced part of the flue sheet and riveted in a strap then welded the partial flue sheet to it. This was done according to the inspectors recomendations at the time but now things are different. Now things must be done in the Original manner unless you want to do a bunch of calculations and paperwork to PROVE the MAWP. EVEN if it is Stronger and Better than Original you still must Jump Through a bunch of Hoops...:(
 

Jeff Smith

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08/05/2018
I did notice the weld, it was hard not too. If I had to have that engine, the least I would have a boiler shop do is tear out that tube sheet and replace it with a new one, maybe even the entire barrel if it is messed up now from that cobble job. Even if that weld was according to code and met all of the requirements with new rivets, I would still want a new flanged tube sheet. That would drive me nuts every time I opened the door and had to look in there to clean the tubes. Just looking at that repair makes me wonder what else has been done to the engine and where, since it was not completed properly. I tend to error on the safe side and would really have to ponder a new boiler if the entire engine has been cobbled up, but that is just me.

Jeff
 

Ben Busfield

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45
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02/12/2017
Yes I did see some of what you all have pointed out but i have no $$$$$$$$$ and a friend has a minn just like that needs work thats were u get this one and my friends and make 1 nice engine even if ya have go in to it with a friend hum ??????????????? ............. na I pass no $$$$$$$$$$$$ and would like something that can be run when bought for a year or 2 before ya have to drop more $$$ to keep it up and ready to go :)

Ben
 
B

Bill Thurman

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This engine is about a 100 miles north of me, it has been ran by the Kansas state boiler inspector for a number of years, Bill T
 

Mike McKnight

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I would say the fellow is trying to fill up the rest of the container that's carrying over the Aultman Taylor and M. Rumely he bought last week. Do you think the fellow's a European antique machinery dealer?;)
Mike
 

Ben Busfield

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02/12/2017
Everyone saw the probs with that minn and nocked it that it would be too much to fix ect ... WELL IS THAT NOT WHAT WE ALL ARE DOING ???????????/ saving our old iron for tomrrow????? is that not what most of this is about ?????? ya the lack of money keept me down and now look we have lost another to over the pond..........:( even if in bad disrepair would it not be good for parts paterns your lawn?

just my 2 cents worth !
Ben
 

Casemaker

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yep....looks like thats what we are doing.... I tend to follow the models more...but like I stated in a different thread... last year I saw a 1/2 scale Case 65 go to Luxenberg for $20,000 (home made boiler). Prior to that I found out that someone had sold the model of the Princess (Jumbo engine stored at Mt Pleasant) had sold and gone accross the pond as well. (this was one of a kind)....
 

Michael Schlag

In Memory Of
Last Subscription Date
12/23/2009
Well I can't help but coment here, I recently had a nice 30 hp Case portable for sale on ebay, Colin was even nice enough to post a thread with a link- Thank you Colin!
Mark Jordan felt it was his place to "critique " the fact that HE saw no recent signs of a ultrasound- don't recall him emailing that question to me?
Just felt he ought to "warn" folks- you never know- I could have Taken advantage of someone! Well the truth was, the boiler WAS uted before I bought it, I had several very nice offers and inquiries from "across the pond"
After listening to the lot of you gossiping old hens, why do you think one might think about selling "across the pond"? Might just want to go back and look at a few of your posts. There was a thread awhile back about lack of respect for inspections as I recall, well here is a whole new lack of resect.
From a inspector------------- a quote-----------
"I'll post for the uninitiated to read.......

I see NO evidence of any ultrasound test. As many of you experienced heads out there know, you must make a "clean spot" by using a grinder with an abrasive disk to make a spot about the size of a dime for the ultrasound probe to get a good reading. Also, there would be "couplant" residue at these points. I see nothing. Nada. Thus, I claim no ultrasound in the recent past. Buyer beware. Good luck."

So if you wonder WHY sellers may "sell across the pond" it might be attitude!
Something to think about!
 

Mark L. Jordan

Registered
Michael,

I admit you're right, I probably should have contacted you concerning any ultrasound before posting my comments. I looked at the pictures and did not see any recent activity, so posted what I posted. There has been a lot of discussion on and off of this board concerning buying engines sight unseen, and there are many people who want an engine so bad that they will buy an unseen boiler only to find out that they may have gotten into something that is over their head. I and my state's chief inspector just returned from Pawnee Steam School, and there were several folks there who had bought sight unseen and were getting their first taste of reality. I don't mean to be disrespectful or have an attitude, and I can see where my post came across that way. For that, I apologize to you. I'm just trying to help those who may be susceptible to making mistakes. The Minneapolis that just sold with the bolts in the front tube sheet was from Kansas. I have learned that the Kansas State inspectors do not inspect historic boilers. An organization called KASA (or something like that)....Kansas Antique Steam Association?? looks at the traction engines. I'm still learning who the "Kansas State Inspector" is. This repair would not be accepted in several states. The EBAY listing said that the engine was KS inspected. Well, from what I have learned, that may be misleading. I'm not perfect, but try my best to learn what I can learn and teach what I can teach. Again, I'm sorry for being disrespectful. I'm learning. Sincerely, Mark Jordan.
 

Michael Schlag

In Memory Of
Last Subscription Date
12/23/2009
Thanks for the apology Mark.
There were several bidders that asked the same questions "no proof of ultra sound so I must not have done one". One thing nice about a computer- the delete button! I found ALL of the foreign bidders to be quite nice in the way they ask a question , I wish it wasn't so "far across the pond" I would have been glad to send it over there, however the fellow from Washington State who bought it will make a fine custodian of the little guy.
The computer is a powerful tool- anything we say here not only goes out to the world, but it stays out there for a long time, lets put our best foot forward and respect each other. The things we say here can affect peoples auctions, business and reputations. Cheers- Michael
 

Casemaker

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I wonder what ever happened to the innocent until proven guilty thinking...I hope that no one on this board is in law inforcement:eek:

Mark,
I hope that you got a good price from your engine in spite of the naysayers...
 

GaarScott

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05/26/2009
Michael Schlag said:
Well I can't help but coment here, I recently had a nice 30 hp Case portable for sale on ebay, Colin was even nice enough to post a thread with a link- Thank you Colin!
Mark Jordan felt it was his place to "critique " the fact that HE saw no recent signs of a ultrasound- don't recall him emailing that question to me?
Just felt he ought to "warn" folks- you never know- I could have Taken advantage of someone! Well the truth was, the boiler WAS uted before I bought it, I had several very nice offers and inquiries from "across the pond"
After listening to the lot of you gossiping old hens, why do you think one might think about selling "across the pond"? Might just want to go back and look at a few of your posts. There was a thread awhile back about lack of respect for inspections as I recall, well here is a whole new lack of resect.
From a inspector------------- a quote-----------
"I'll post for the uninitiated to read.......

I see NO evidence of any ultrasound test. As many of you experienced heads out there know, you must make a "clean spot" by using a grinder with an abrasive disk to make a spot about the size of a dime for the ultrasound probe to get a good reading. Also, there would be "couplant" residue at these points. I see nothing. Nada. Thus, I claim no ultrasound in the recent past. Buyer beware. Good luck."

So if you wonder WHY sellers may "sell across the pond" it might be attitude!
Something to think about!
Michael,

I very well may be speaking out of turn. It wouldn't be the first time. But, I would have to say without knowing all of the facts, just those represented in your own statements on and about what Mark Jordan and what he had said; did you refute them after he made his postings? In other words, did you point out to him and any potential buyers that you did indeed have ultra-sounds which could prove the condition of the boiler. And I hate to say it, not by you or a fellow steam engine person, but by some accredited third party. I know if I were going to sell an engine on ebay, I would have one of our state inspectors come and perform a shop inspection and then have them give me a written copy of his/her findings so that I may post this with the engine. I would suspect that if the boiler was everything an experienced engine person would expect them it to be, you would get top dollar for it. Can't imagine the money spent would have been ill-spent. Like I said, I didn't follow that sale as I am not a Case man. However, on the flip side of this, I just recently purchased a 22hp GaarScott traction engine that I went down and ultra-sounded myself. My partner, during this purchase, couldn't make the trip with me, but trusted my judgment. What I am saying, I had the opportunity to look at the boiler and he didn't. So he had to take my word that it was good. Which he did, as we have steamed together for several years and he trusts my judgment. But for the unsuspecting buyer that doesn't have the opportunity to look an engine face to face, they are going by what you or someone else says about the condition of a given engine.

To recap, I think what Mark was attempting to do was point out to the new hobbyist what to look for or ask for if entertaining such a purchase. With the growing attention on the hobby we are getting more younger inexperienced people who are looking for and need our experience/expertise. I took what Mark said to be just that, a warning or a valid point to bring to a "newbee's" attention for signs to look for when looking to purchase an engine unseen. I don't think he meant any harm and I felt that you may have been a little harsh on him for his statements. Like I said, I am probably speaking out of turn and I don't know all of the facts, just the ones that were written in this post. Hopefully you won't take too much offense to what I have written, as I mean it in constructive criticism, not an attack on your character in general. Also, as a suggestion for anyone else that might be thinking about selling an engine on ebay. You may want to have it inspected by a certified agency and let interested buyers know that this has been done. I know I would be considerably more interested in an engine that has available or refers to such documentation. It does appear though, what I have seen as of late, that engines are bringing some pretty good money, whether on ebay or auction sales!

Once again, I don't wish to start a heated debate, just constructive criticism. If you wish to debate your point, please email me directly as I am certain most don't wish to read more into this. You may email me at lswanz@superioriron.com if you so choose.

Lawrence
 

Michael Schlag

In Memory Of
Last Subscription Date
12/23/2009
Hi Lawrence, yes, I did have to go and defend my statements about a ultra sound after Mark made his coments.
If any of you have ever sold a house, this is the way it works- I can inspect, or I can pay for a inspection- none of it counts! YOU as the buyer have to inspect or pay for a inspection .Third party inspections even paid by the seller do NOT count- that is still considered biased.
HOWEVER! If you choose to defame me or what I am selling without basis and this affects my sale you have just put yourself in a libelous situation. If you do not belive me, you may ask my attorney, we spoke about this.
In other words, questions should be addressed to the seller, in the old days gossip was tollerated, in todays world you just opened yourself up to the possibility of a lawsuit.
Manners used to be "just a nice thing" today they may save you some dough. Cheers- Michael
 

Mark L. Jordan

Registered
This has been a learning experience. I don't think that anyone meant to do harm to anyone. I certainly did not. What was learned:

1) I am an inspector, and usually make my observation from what I can see. I saw nothing evident in the photographs provided. Therefore, I posted what I saw. Michael may have learned to provide in his statements that the UT was done several years earlier, which would have prevented any confusion and concern on my part.

2) I should have inquired from Michael about the UT and presented my concern to him in order for him to answer my concern before making my statement. That would have prevented ill will toward me on his part.

Anyway, the engine is sold and has a good caretaker, we all have learned how to avoid making mistakes. I certainly hope that my apology is accepted and there is no more reason to beat a dead horse. Be respectful. Sincerely, Mark Jordan
 
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