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1927 20-35 Allis Chalmers

Jacob WI

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/15/2019
Hi all,

I don't post here often, but I read the posts all the time! I want to thank everyone for this amazing site, that can never be said too much.

Up until a couple of weeks ago I didn't have anything to post about. But then I got my 1927 Allis 20-35! I've been wanting one of these for a long time. And for the last few years I have been more seriously looking for one. I finally came across one for the right price (a project), the right location, and the timing was good (usually someone else beat me to the punch).

I will be mechanically restoring this tractor, but will not be painting it. They are only original once, and I am really starting to appreciate that!

So I got to go back home and spend three fun days with Dad tearing into this tractor when it was delivered. Everything looks good so far, there is virtually no wear on what we have taken apart so far.

Here is a bunch of pics on my Photobucket account:
http://s293.photobucket.com/user/pickupjake/library/1927%20Allis%20Chalmers%2020-35?sort=3&page=1

And here is a walk around video I did when I got it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpwGZAZvlFo

The engine is stuck, and has had parts robbed in a former life. One piston is gone. One head is not original, and one is missing all the valve train.

We took apart the steering box to clean and inspect it. There is no wear on the gears, and only the one pin that connects the worm gear to the steering shaft is loose. An oversize pin should fix that.

We took the bearings out of the left front wheel to get the numbers off of them to order some for the right front wheel. They were taken at some point as well. We got the bearings, so once I locate the dust shield and get some new felts, that can all go back together.

I took the cover off of the transmission and drained and have begun to flush it out. From what I can see, everything looks good. No worn teeth and nothing broken, so that is good.

I brought the oil filter back with me and have gotten that all disassembled, cleaned, and put back together. It is a PurOlator type B. I have some questions though. The filter was not on the tractor when I got it, so I am wondering how the bottom mounts to the tractor? Am I missing a part? I know the top mounts to the lifter cover nut on the block. And then what is the horseshoe cutout on the bottom of the plate for?
I am assuming this is the correct filter for this tractor because it has original green paint on it, but it is different than the others I see online. Mine has no bolt that goes through the canister. Instead it has two bolts and a hand wheel that clamp the canister down. There are pics in my account.
Any info here is appreciated!

I also have started to disassemble the carb. A Wheeler Schebler AX213. So far things look ok. I have found one tube that has a crack along the length of it. (again, pics in Photobucket) I am under the understanding that parts for these are non existent?
How about a parts diagram? I haven't found much info on these.

As usual, any info, tips, or comments are always appreciated! I have a LOT to learn, but I can say that I am in love with this tractor!:D

This is going to be a long slow project, but I promise to keep you all updated when progress is made, Thanks!
 
R

Richard Sturdy

Guest
Re: 1927 20-35 Allis

I have had several E class Allis-Chalmers tractors over the years, including a really nice original 20-35, which I sold to a friend last year, when I was reducing my tractor collection. I can honestly say that they are superb machines - pull like a mule (a very large one!) and have an exhaust note which is a delight to the ear. They have a character which is all their own and I know that you will enjoy owning yours. Good luck with the restoration - Norm Meinert is a great source of parts and advice!
Tricky Dickie
 

Brothers Clemens

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2018
Re: 1927 20-35 Allis

Jacob,:wave:

Looks an wonderful project.
Nice to keep the tractor original.

Keep us involved what you are doing and keep posting.

Richard,:wave:

Nice to see you back.
Have heart that you bought some very beautiful antique cars.

Hope to see you somewhere in the future on an new family Koolen tractor day.


Chris,:salute:
 

FWurth

One Millionth Post
Last Subscription Date
07/29/2019
Re: 1927 20-35 Allis

Good find. The carb on that one are kinda scarce so don't loose any parts. That freeze crack in the little tube can be cleaned and a bit of solder will take care of it, likely will need to clean and check for cracks on the float as well. Mr. Meinert may have some repairs available on that as well. I've never seen a oil filter like that on one so that is a bit unusual.
 

Jacob WI

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/15/2019
Hi all,

Just thought I'd give you an update on my progress on my 20-35. I got to head home before the GOTO in Turtle Lake, WI and spend a few days working on disassembling the engine. Dad and I got the entire block out of the tractor and stripped down except for the pistons and sleeves.

Every part of this tractor is HEAVY! LOL!

I posted a bunch more pics in my Photobucket if anyone is interested in checking them out.
http://s293.photobucket.com/user/pickupjake/library/1927%20Allis%20Chalmers%2020-35?sort=3&page=1

We also got the radiator flushed out the first go around, I will end up taking the top and bottom tanks off and cleaning everything out well, because there was a whole mess of mouse nests that came out, ick....

Got the hand crank handle off the radiator bottom tank so the spinner could be freed up. Now we need to straighten it a bit and get the spinner welded up (broken).

Got one of the pins of the break band out, and still working on getting the other two out so we can get the break all free and working as it should.

Removed the oil pump from the oil pan, still need to free that up as it is stuck tight. Discovered that the oil pan, and the bottom cover on the pan were both cracked. But I got a replacement for both at the GOTO. I also picked up a fan shroud, a set of 5" pistons (plan to bore out my original 4 3/4" sleeves), and one connecting rod, also the water manifold, some valve train parts, and hood strap that I was missing. I got all of this from Matt Scott, so if you are ever looking for parts, ask Matt, he is a good guy to deal with! Thanks Matt!
Gary also brought me the wire piece that holds the radiator cap shut, thanks Gary!
I also bought me a slew of parts and gaskets from Norm, so I have actually rounded up the vast majority of the things I have been looking for so far.

I'm still on the hunt for the throttle quadrant. And some valve train parts. And a magneto.

I believe that I have solved the oil filter mystery, as it bolts up perfectly to the manifold bolts, and I found an ad that has a drawing of this type of filter. I also talked with a guy at the GOTO that says he has seen a couple of other tractors with this type of filter on them as well.

Got to meet and talk with a bunch of new people at the show, some of them are on the forum here. I actually spent more time talking than looking at tractors I think! Spent a good while checking out Big Charlie, and talking with Old Scrambler about him (I'm coming up short with your real name, sorry:eek:) A big thank you to Roger for hauling Charlie up to the GOTO!:salute:

Lots of good headway was made, but there is still a long road ahead of me, thanks for all of the support so far!
 

Jacob WI

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/15/2019
I just talked with Dad, he got the gas cap unstuck! How do you like the setup he used? Ingenious I thought :D


From what he says the tank is rusty, but only what you would expect to see, it should clean up. There is also a baffle in the tank from what he tells me, which I didn't know.

I worked on the governor this weekend. I got it taken apart and all cleaned up. It is amazing how much original paint is under the gunk and rust once you clean everything up!



Things look pretty good, there are a couple of pins that I will probably have to replace because they are worn fairly bad. But for as old as it is, it's really amazing things aren't in worse shape.

As usual, I added a handful more pics for you all to see what I've been up to, and what the inside of these old machines looks like.

http://s293.photobucket.com/user/pickupjake/library/1927 Allis Chalmers 20-35?sort=3&page=1
 

Jacob WI

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/15/2019
Hi all!

Time for another update, as progress has been good. I took another trip home and got some good wrenching time in on Big AL. The good news is I got a bunch of things done, the bad is that now I probably won't get a chance to go back until Christmas time.

I started by getting the break band and pedal assembly off of the tractor. Getting the pin out was a chore, as it was stuck tight. A tip for doing this, tape a nut onto the end of the pry bar to press the pin out. The band needs a new lining, but all else looks good.


I got the torch out and fixed and disassembled a few things.

I got the front left fender bracket straightened out, and a good chunk of the dented fender popped back out, but it still needs a ton of work.



Got both ends of the drag link taken apart.



Got the pivot pin for the front axle removed, and all the nuts off for the radius rods so that could be taken all apart. We straightened the one bent radius rod. Anyone know what the paint stripe on the back of the pivot point is about?




We were going to remove the steering spindles so new king pin washers can be done, but we ran out of Oxygen for the torch, so that put a stop to that.

Got the fan hub taken apart, so that can be cleaned up and put a new seal in it.


more to come...
 

Jacob WI

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/15/2019
I removed the gas tank and started to clean that out. Put a chunk of chain in and started to slosh it around to get all the loose rust out. It is dirty. Unfortunately too, a hole appeared under where the rear mounting bracket goes on the bottom of the tank, so this will need to be fixed now too.


I took a big brass punch and knocked all the stuck lifters up so the cam could be removed from the block. The cam is looking good, but the lifters are all shot. Fortunately I already located another set of lifters.



Pressing the pistons out of the sleeves was a treat. They were stuck good! But they are all out now, so now the next step is to decide were to bring my sleeves to have bored out for my new 5" pistons.



Got the main shaft pressed out of the oil pump, but the other gear is still stuck.


I got the wire for the radiator cap fit. It needed to be trimmed down a bit. There must be more than one size of these wires? The one I got was only 5" between the ends, mine needed to be about 5 1/4". Another thing we've noted, that my rad cap has two slotted screws to hold the gasket and washer to the inside of the cap, where most have just the single hole with a rivet to hold the gasket. Is this a '27 difference again?



We also plugged the outlets for the radiator and filled it with vinegar to clean it out good before we disassemble it. After setting filled with vinegar for a few days we drained it and flushed it a bunch more. Found a couple of tiny leaks, but fortunately they are where the tank top and bottom meet the core, so should fix themselves with new gaskets I hope.

Things have been going good, and it was pointed out to me the other day that I have only had this tractor about 2 months at this point, so that makes me feel even better about the amount of progress that has been made.
The pipe dream is to have this tractor up and running for next summers show season, but I know that we have a LONG way to go before that is going to happen.

If things go really good, I hope to get to put some things back INTO the block when I'm home for Christmas time, but we'll see......

As usual, I added a ton more pics to my Photobucket:
http://s293.photobucket.com/user/pickupjake/library/1927 Allis Chalmers 20-35?sort=3&page=1
 

Jacob WI

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/15/2019
Hi all,

I want to pick your brains a bit. My 20-35 is missing its oil pressure gauge. I've talked to some knowledgeable people and gotten their opinions, but there is always more info out there if you ask, right?

The general consensus is that most short fenders have the regular old oil gauge on them. But I have reason to believe that mine might have had the early type of oil pressure gauge on it like is found on the L "Big Charlie".
Here are a couple of pics I took of Big Charlies oil gauge at the GOTO in turtle lake this summer.





here is a pic of the two oil lines going to where the gauge should be on my 20-35.


and here is a pic of the front where there is a glob of goo I speculate came from the gauge leaking slowly over time. How else would oil turn into a goo spot here? Note how it is located about where the top of the gauge would be.


I also found this pic in the ad brochure for the short fender 20-35's. I realize this is just an artists rendering, but it has the style of oil gauge we are talking about, so that must be some proof it was used on the short fenders, huh? See page 6 where they are talking about the draw bar, but note the oil gauge in the drawing.
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1004&context=tractorpower

As you can see, I've spent some time trying to figure this out, LOL!
What say you???

Looking forward to hearing your opinions and what info you have on the topic, Thanks!
 

Jacob WI

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/15/2019
Ok, let's talk fan shrouds now,

I picked up this shroud for my tractor, but have now noticed a small difference between it and other shrouds on 20-35's.





On this shroud the inside lip (on the round hole) has a flat bend of 90* which has four square nuts welded to it, which we speculate was for a place to mount a screen or guard to protect you from putting your hand in the fan, like seen on the earlier tractors. There was an L at the GOTO in turtle lake with a guard like this, but I didn't get a pic. (next to Big Charlie)
If this is the case, anyone have a pic of what this screen should look like?

Most shrouds I looked at on other 20-35's have this lip rolled over a small piece of wire so there is no means to fasten a guard in this location.

What is the story on this? Is this an early '27 difference thing again?
Those with 20-35's, what does your tractor have on it?
 

Phil Johnson

Sponsor
Last Subscription Date
07/12/2019
I'll check me '27 tomorrow on the fan shroud.
The early '27s may have used that early style oil gauge. There is another pic on p. 38 on the link you posted showing two oil lines to the gauge.

Those early gauges are like hens teeth!!
 

Phil Johnson

Sponsor
Last Subscription Date
07/12/2019
Jacob. My parts '27 has the same type of fan shroud as you have,maybe in a little better shape! I suspect that they changed about '28 to a simpler shroud as Allis was still cutting the cost of these tractors to make them more competitive in the market place.
 

FWurth

One Millionth Post
Last Subscription Date
07/29/2019
As Phill mentioned above, those were the years when Harry Merritt took over the management of the ag division of Allis. He made many changes to bring down the production cost. He lowered the price to move out old inventory and made many changes in design and production to speed up assembly and use less materials to lower cost. He also dropped all but the two best models to cut costs. The improved E and the new U were the only ones to survive the cut. He then acquired Rumely to get the Branch houses and dealers to get a wider market for sales and facilities for the all new Combine production. He had a well planned direction for the future of Allis that was very successful for decades to come.
 

Charlie1925

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
02/03/2020
Jacob WI ( Roger Weinhold AKA Charlie 1925 here ) You met my brother and seen my tractor, 1925 Allis Chalmers model 15-25 and I remember talking to you by Norm`s parts trailer. Welcome to this network, There is a lot of info. & help here, There are several other guys on here that are working on A/C model "E"s. I don`t know anything about that oil pressure gage on Big Charlie ( It is not hocked up,) Thats why there is another gage down on the right side of the engine, Good luck on your projects. Hope to see you next show season, I will be back up to Wisconsin again, I think the next GOTO`s are in Ind . & Mo.:)
 

Jacob WI

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/15/2019
Hi all!

I don't have much to add at this point, but I want to try to keep this post updated as I progress with this project.

I did disassemble and clean up the valve covers recently. I have a question about them. What do you guys use for the breather material in the valve cover? Originally it was horse hair, and mine was still that. Boy was it gross. Cut a piece of air cleaner foam material to put in there?

I also acquired a few more parts that I have been looking for. I got a magneto, a front hubcap, some valve train parts, and primer cups from Briewers Tractor Salvage, Thanks Gary!

I went up to the Makoti, ND threshing show on Oct 3rd and checked out the 1927 20-35 they have at the showgrounds. I really was hoping to talk with someone about this tractor, but from what I heard this tractor has not been out of the barn in several years unfortunately, and no one was around:(
I did spend a good deal of time looking at all of its little details, and measuring up some parts that I need to fabricate for my tractor. This tractor is earlier than mine, and all of the little bits that are different on '27's (or that I speculate are '27 features) are constant with what I have found, so that makes more proof of things. I also took a bunch of pics:D
http://s293.photobucket.com/user/pickupjake/library/Makoti%20ND%201927%2020-35?sort=3&page=1
Now I can fab some of the little things I am missing like the hand crank holding wire, the air cleaner pipe, and the radiator choke rod bracket.

I am still on the hunt for a throttle quadrant like this if anyone has any leads?



Also, if by some chance someone has an exhaust manifold like this one, I'd be very interested. From what we can gather, only the '27's had this manifold with the ears on the top where the muffler pipe goes. It was a dumb design, and you can imagine why they changed it (broken ears from over tightening the cast to try to tighten up to the exhaust pipe).



Does anyone know if hose clamps like this are being reproduced? They are brass, and not just the typical strap type, they are more fancy. My tractor, this tractor, and Tony Tompson's (all '27's) all had this type of hose clamp. I know it's a shot in the dark, but would anyone have any good used ones they would be willing to sell me? Mine are all broken.


Thanks for all the info, I'll keep everyone posted on my progress!
 

Jacob WI

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/15/2019
well huh,
I just noticed another difference! Look at the throttle quadrant in the above post versus this one on Tony's '27.

I've been focusing on the cast right lever with the ball on top (also note the poor casting on the Makoti lever, the ball is hardly even a round ball), but just noticed that the left lever is different between these two! Tony's has a little flipper deal on a flat strap, the Makoti '27 has a twisted strap with no flipper and teeth on the left side of the quadrant as well.

Very interesting... Just HOW many variations did Allis have over the years?!:brows:

I find all of these tiny differences fascinating...:O
 

Phil Johnson

Sponsor
Last Subscription Date
07/12/2019
My '27 had the same throttle quadrant and levers like Tony's. It is now at home on another local '27!
I may have a couple of those brass hose clamps. They are generally heavier material than the steel type. Unfortunately, the brass gets very brittle over time and they break.
 

Jacob WI

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/15/2019
Time for an update:

I was back home over the holidays and got some tractor wrenching time worked into the schedule.

As of now the engine has been completely broken down and I hauled all of the parts that need machining down to the machine shop. Hopefully this next week or so they will get a chance to look things over and get working on it. They are going to be boring out the original 4 3/4" sleeves to fit the new (used) 5" pistons. They are also going to work over the crank and all the bearings as needed. The cam, if good enough to regrind, will be reground. The heads will get new valve seats, and fly cut the head surfaces and manifold surfaces. The rocker arms will also need some rework from them being worn.
So hopefully in a month or two I'll be making another quick trip home to get the finished parts. I'll keep you updated :brows:

While home I took apart the tie rod and drag link and cleaned them up and put them all back together, so they are ready to go now.

I also removed the one broken extension rim so it can be welded up.


We got a new bottle of oxygen for the torch, so we finished disassembling the front axle spindles. They need some new bushing, then they will be ready to reassemble as well.


Finally got the oil pump freed up. Letting things soak for a length of time here was the key. Once it was all apart, and cleaned up, things looked good so that was a nice surprise!

Like I mentioned, I had gotten the heads stripped down before bringing them to the machine shop.

My magneto is going to be headed to Matt Scott to rebuild in a couple of weeks when my sister is going through that way, and she'll pick up some more parts that I'll need from him.

My buddy Kyle came up to visit and see this project, and I sent him back with my governor. He is going to remake a few parts for it, so that should be back in tip top shape before long as well.

Things are starting to fall together it seems, I brought a few more little parts back with me to clean up when I have a minute. I'm feeling more confident about getting this tractor back together and running for show season this summer.

As usual, I have added a few more pics to my Photobucket account.
 
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