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1936 F-20 clutch questions plus other F series things.

Duey C

Subscriber
Age
56
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
Done fell off the deep end Adam! Seems I need to be under the gun so to speak...
OK, made gaskets for the water pipe connections late last night. That got put together, then the rag joint cover put back on.
Moved to the oil filter. Purolater B-29. A few drops of water came out of the drain plug and that answered why the pressure gauge is completely messed up. A bit of rust also in the inlet said so. Water got in the Bourdon tube and froze. Junk.
It's been 30 years since this one last ran Duane. Some things are gonna be messed up.
UGH. The oil pan on this one calls me. Must be dealt with and shoot, I just want to get back to my regular project. :cool:
3147. Crap pic of the oil filter base. Here I go again! ;) Purolater filters and this guy. Oh crap. He's gonna do it again.
Gentlemen, make certain your oil filters are doing exactly as intended. No funny business K?
8840. Got one coming. Daughter uses amazon prime. 17 bucks. Supposed to be 7 bucks...
IF 7 bucks, back to daughter. I need two more. If not, I'll try the local store. We'll see. And yet on my TC thread many moons ago, I asked and there was response. Back to research.
Son even admits he doesn't pay his mechanic very well. :LOL:
BIL knew a farmer, years ago, named Karl P. I met that man a couple times, interesting fellow, he and his daughters were always in a hurry.
He'd stop for just a couple minutes and then.. "Gotta go, gotta go. Got no time to fxxx arround." And off he'd go on his Deutz.
Put a thick German accent on that statement and you might see why it stuck in my head. Sometimes my go-to.
13382. Cleaned up a little bit. I beat that screw shown in 3147 with a brass punch and it was ready to come out with the custom TT/TTX carb screwdriver.
1/2 inch check/pressure ball. Good that I have stainless ones here.

Hey! Are NEW springs available for this ball? I need some!
 

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Ncooley23

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Done fell off the deep end Adam! Seems I need to be under the gun so to speak...
OK, made gaskets for the water pipe connections late last night. That got put together, then the rag joint cover put back on.
Moved to the oil filter. Purolater B-29. A few drops of water came out of the drain plug and that answered why the pressure gauge is completely messed up. A bit of rust also in the inlet said so. Water got in the Bourdon tube and froze. Junk.
It's been 30 years since this one last ran Duane. Some things are gonna be messed up.
UGH. The oil pan on this one calls me. Must be dealt with and shoot, I just want to get back to my regular project. :cool:
3147. Crap pic of the oil filter base. Here I go again! ;) Purolater filters and this guy. Oh crap. He's gonna do it again.
Gentlemen, make certain your oil filters are doing exactly as intended. No funny business K?
8840. Got one coming. Daughter uses amazon prime. 17 bucks. Supposed to be 7 bucks...
IF 7 bucks, back to daughter. I need two more. If not, I'll try the local store. We'll see. And yet on my TC thread many moons ago, I asked and there was response. Back to research.
Son even admits he doesn't pay his mechanic very well. :LOL:
BIL knew a farmer, years ago, named Karl P. I met that man a couple times, interesting fellow, he and his daughters were always in a hurry.
He'd stop for just a couple minutes and then.. "Gotta go, gotta go. Got no time to fxxx arround." And off he'd go on his Deutz.
Put a thick German accent on that statement and you might see why it stuck in my head. Sometimes my go-to.
13382. Cleaned up a little bit. I beat that screw shown in 3147 with a brass punch and it was ready to come out with the custom TT/TTX carb screwdriver.
1/2 inch check/pressure ball. Good that I have stainless ones here.

Hey! Are NEW springs available for this ball? I need some!
No rest for you! I told you I was going to work you to death! Hahaha
 

Duey C

Subscriber
Age
56
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
Dual post on two forums. Warned ya.
Rear wheel hubs and splines. Crossing lines.
Due to this site, good info, fiddling with things and written notions. Some Oliver tractors are also in this vexing/hexing...

EDIT:
Please add to this as you see fit! :)
Ya, he’s gonna do this post.
Rear wheel splines, what I know. Far more for all of us to do, if interested.
Did an exercise for the “sake of the greater good” today...
Not a waste. Interesting.
Removed an F-30 rear hub from the wheel center it’s been in since the 30‘s this afternoon. Snug. Bolts too.
Tried to slide it on a Twin City 21-32 axle. The proverbial “Fits like a glove.” More to do there.
I’ve (In hind-sight) almost hinted that the TC rear hubs ramp-up against the end of the axle splines (STUCK), while the F-30 butts up against a square flange. Not stuck on the axle, they come right off.
An F-30 hub is about 6 inches deep. A Twin City 12-20, 17-28 and 21-32 rear wheel hub is about 8 inches deep. Spacers needed someplace. I find the 17-28 hubs at least are longer on the inside and wish I had some
busted hubs to cut some spacers off to suit. 21-32 hubs are quite short on the inside. BIG wheels!

Thanks to Russ, we already know the McCormick-Deering 10-20 rear wheels fit on an FT series Twin City with spacers as the 10-20 hubs are WIDER than the FT hubs are.
See this post. GOLD. From my TC thread.
https://www.smokstak.com/forum/threads/twin-city-small-tractors-on-a-whim.180290/page-27
It’s 11:42 PM when I think of this and I’m not going to bother the man at this hour about permission.
Hope it’s OK. It’s late and I gotta get this done.

Why on Earth does this guy go “here” to this this level and ask these questions?
Truth: I’ve four 17-28 TC rear wheels here that need to be free of the rear axles and no clue WHERE to ask around here to have a fella/crew come out and extricate these wheels from their axles. Feeling dumb right there.
A bridge builder is close but do they do demolition that might warrant an oxy lance? Call, ya moron!
No presses around here large enough to even consider busting a hub.
For the shorter term, some Farmall AND McCormick-Deering rears are available and could quickly get a couple of Twin City tractors back on their feet. That’s why.

635. F-30 rear hub on a 21-32 axle. Backward glove. Why?
2012. The inside of the F-30 hub. Beveled splines. With bevels, that’d be cheating.
7739. Outer side of the F-30 hub. Oop, a file fixed my ding to that spline.
Test purposes. No bevels.
1756. The spline. 2-31/32 major diameter measured today.
2968-1. For those not in the know. I ran across this months ago and felt it needed sharing.
Look at it again. Makes no sense? Holler! I will explain what little I know, if you don’t. Share=care.
2968. 2 The rim and tire on the other side is far worse than this side.
We are thinking about some decent tires, new tubes and rims from a friend for cheap (18.34x30) for 2 for a modern day “Cut-offs” story. I’ll get the local tire store involved ($$) for some of the work of getting the tires off the rims and then back on.
Do you guys do that anymore?
Do share how you do it. I think we will!
WTH are we thinking about pulling growly 2?
 

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Duey C

Subscriber
Age
56
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
Purolater B-29 oil filter assy and an F-4 bit.

053. Got this neat gadget in the mail from a gentleman in Illinois yesterday. It works like a dream to pull the F-4 impulse coupler hub off the armature! It threads in the hub, then you run the inner bolt up tight against the armature end and pop.
Next is to figure out how to get the distributer gear out so I can pull the armature on this spare mag.
See that poor impulse weight? Its washer and Jesus clip are missing so he got loose and oww.

JD 720. That sure isn’t a Bourdon tube, pinion and gear sector here! I’ve been in one of these before! That gauge 30 some years ago was way worse. This one is really nice! Maybe the seal leaks a little bit of oil but mostly water damage.
Found this one in the tool box, encased in oil goo. Couldn’t even see the needle. Used a razer blade in an old handle, peeled the goop off and started cleaning.
The one that was on the filter base is stuck at high oil pressure. Still hope for that one too.
Dopey me. I put the filter assy back on the engine before tearing apart the other gauge!
Perhaps an 1/8“ pipe connector stuffed in the vice to screw it into for the hack saw to slice the cover to wiggle it off. I figured they’re junk anyway and yet... Life again?

2704. Ready to test! If you look at the face under the needle in the right light you can still see the arc that was printed on it.
Severe moisture issues.

3986. A few of you have seen this before on another Purolater filter base I have.
I LOST the ball that was hot-glued on the dowel to touch up the seating surface so I grabbed the gasket punch
ball and glued it on. Maw, where are the hot-glue guns? A little valve grinding paste, a few swivels and presto!
A cleaned-up seat in this base and it didn’t look bad at all anyway.
A new 1/2“ Stainless ball is under that original spring beneath the big brass screw.
It’s been apart before, thank goodness.
The original and rusty ball is sitting in the thread for the canister hold-down rod/bolt.
Can’t seem to find new springs to keep things as intended. Ideas?
Could ask a Moliniac friend about having some made for the IH’s when his spring people are back in production... :cool:
Have YOU removed that big screw to clean the check ball, seat and spring in your IH oil filter base?
Be honest. ;)

7618. Look at this shot. I put the throttle rod back in the lever and stuffed the little cotter back in.
I slotted that hole at the bench that had me grumbling fiercely a few days ago with the hacksaw!
I didn’t like that. It certainly worked to pull it all apart! But I didn't like.
Samooth! That filter assy slipped down into place, over that rod like nobody’s business. Happy.
Oh! For those that know me: That filter base is Purolater black! Hehehe! Answers questions I’ve had!
I will stick this neck out and say this Purolater B-29 filter assembly was put on the tractor at the factory that way...
Painted black.
Eek! Oh the humanity! What is he thinking? Such a fool! etc. etc. :)
:salute: :)
 

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Duey C

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Age
56
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
Covert/behind the scenes.

Quietly cleaned up the F-12/14 carb (brass based) that came in from Biewer’s the last couple days.
I did not get the cast iron carb clean enough. Still plugged.
Glad the Biewer’s carb came.
That little F-14 Bitxh has been raised to the status of little snot. Yet may be elevated to a He!
(So much to do on the 20 too. I gotta get back on track with my brand. 2 is waiting.)
Simple and clear it was.
Made a couple gaskets last night/today. Scrinched the hood UP and stuffed a screwdriver to hold it up.
This 14 is a Kero cooker so it has the hood ornament. Can’t lift the hood off easily.
Changed the carb out, over choked it and then some flops later, vroom! And repeated good starts.
It took three carb refills before the AC pump woke up and took over. That’s OK.
Learning this little bugger.

and

IF you wish to see. Please let these links NOT be in your face. Shoot, they're in your face.
He runs so blame nice. Settling down and learning the gov also.
Note: Interesting the mag interruptor cover can be "dislodged" if not careful. Did ya catch that?
Ya can't kill it/shut it down if dislodged.

F-14 bits.
807. Used a Twin City/Purolater oil filter part to help straighten the fuel inlet strainer for the 14.
It was twisted up.
F-20 bits.
3307. Filter in place.
5231. Wait now. THIS Cummins/Fleetguard LF-584, F-20 oil filter o-ring fits? This is a first for me.
My G, JD’s never had an oil filter o-ring that fit and the TC doesn’t either.
No wonder I’d rather use them as a distributer cap/plate gasket for a magneto...
IF the original gasket leaks, that sweet ring will be be used. Cool.
 

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PFT

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02/07/2020
If you could find one of these manual pump levers and add it to your pump, starting an F12/14 is much easier. Just pump until it has the carb full and it should start quite easily. On mine, I set the throttle about 3 notches off idle, close choke, pump up the fuel, give it a twist, and away it goes.
 

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Duey C

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Age
56
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
Haha! PFT, that's really cool! Handy. :cool: :)
No bosses/slots/allowances for the the handle in the body of the pump on this one. Similar steel cover.
Did you cut/file/put the openings in that pump body or were they already there?
Any idea who else used these A-C pumps for all our future reference?
Next on that front is the check balls and their seats.
I believe the pump was just barely keeping up. Just barely.
I'm leaning towards a bag of new stainless check balls from McMaster-Carr and lapping the seats with my "ball hot-glued to the dowel" methods when I see what size they are.
Need a piece of 2" x 10" pipe anyway for the 20 for almost 9 bucks plus shipping.
Need to go looking for rebuild kits for these A-C pumps perhaps...
Say!? Brass screens for the sediment bowls! Anyone make these? This one is long gone.
 

PFT

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Last Subscription Date
02/07/2020
I had to file the notches for the lever, easy to do once you know where they are needed. I have seen the lever on many pumps from other applications, mine came from a JD self propelled combine. My Waukesha Hesselman 130HL had the same pump as the F12/14 (it did have an extra spring to raise the pressure supply to the injection pump).
 

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ajs2744TC

Registered
Lot of the Purolator canisters I've had off had string for a gasket. Just lay it in around and around smash it tight.
 

Duey C

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Age
56
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
Very cool! Thanks PFT!
Haha! "Store string" is what my uncle Bud called it when I was a kid. For tying the heavy paper on your package at the hardware store.
I've used store string for packing and even gaskets but that's a really good idea for an oil filter canister gasket that cannot be found.
My wife just picked up a ball of string, real similar. Used some already. :oops:
I think 2 should have a string-end hanging out of the canister...
 

Duey C

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Age
56
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
These F-14 fuel pumps.

Good grief, it’s 93 degrees outside. To some Minnesotans, that’s almost like 120 to a Kansan...
But “it’s a dry heat”... Son even called to make sure I wasn’t being dumb and working outdoors but I did get a little bit done today. Do need to be careful tho, been cooked a few times...
307. Well Duane, they sure aren’t check balls are they!
178. I did go in the office a’smoothin’ with a chunk of 2500 grit paper and the fiber checks look pretty darn good again.
Seats are pretty fair too. How the heck would a guy re-seat those? Carefully...
 

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Duey C

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Age
56
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
That little Bitxh.

That 14. I caressed her pump, refilled her carb and she went kind of right away yet the hood ornament showed no signs of gas being pumped upstairs when I looked in. Dry.
Bbbmmm then bloop bloop bloop blahhh. Done.
No wonder I thought they were silly with that high carb and a xxxxxxx fuel pump.
Is there a “combination” of how many turns on the fuel valve since both tanks are plumbed together in the same line?
Funny, since it prefers to leak gas from the main tank, pump and valve all the time...

Twin City had it right.
Ya flip the fuel valve this way for starting gas, that way for dist/kero in the main tank and in the middle is OFF.
Gravity.

It’s warm enough the fireflies/lightning bugs are active tonight. Like seeing them.
Getting nicer. Just came in from sitting outdoors.
Gonna be a warm one up here tomorrow again. 87? Back outdoors.
Been outdoors for 10. Someone’s grilling 1/2 mile away yet at this hour (11:52). Smells good.
Maw’s #2, ‘14 Traverse blew an AC line a few days ago at about 80,000 so she’s stuck in the ‘06 Lucerne for a few days starting the morrow. She won’t take the old truck.
Warm ride to southern MN yester for a god-son’s grad party in the Traverse. Man was he busy with drive-ups.
I had Maw squirt some hand sanitizer in my hand and I shook the grad’s hand while we passed thru the line.
That was gross. Funny to me and Holden tho.
Yet. Distracts from old tractors... But a cacophany of croaking frogs settles me.
:)
 

Duey C

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Age
56
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
Little snot.

Just had to mess with this thing today a little after 3/4 inch of rain and two rounds of straight down hail.
Learning as I go. Found some talk about too-short/too-long plungers to actuate the pump thankfully.
Dopey me: The starting tank has a shut off valve on it too. Obviously missed that considering a very silly question above.
Repainting to red! With permission, I’ve a few pics to share that I’ve found.
297. The return springs are inside this sillycone/and oil goop infested bottom cover. Something might be amiss in this pic as the 100 dollar rebuild kit shows two long springs...
And red fiber washers! For the checks bodies! ?
One check body leaks like a sieve. Have a text out to a fellow to see IF the ancient box of fiber washers got saved or if I blow another hundred with McMaster-Carr...
Any ideas on the shut off valve on the main tank to stop the leak down and also out? Store string for packing on the gland nut but the valve itself leaks too. Work to do.
977. Oop, that’s the short spring in the pic for the diaphragm rod.
781. Oh oh. Did the pump rod simply fall out of the hole and is adrift in the pan?
Must’ve been pretty short... Just the drain hole into the crankcase so there’s easy flow into the engine oil when the diaphragm starts leaking.
886. Nope. It’s there. A bit cupped on the end.
269. This still has the nut. Happy.
0448. Like a dream, it came off/apart. Note how dry it appears in the top of the pump...
 

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Duey C

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Age
56
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
You guys probably know all about this but it's new to me and perhaps another fella so...
A nice guy over on red power had posted these last year.
 

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Duey C

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Age
56
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
This little sweetheart showed up today. Not bad at all! Came in from PA.
Been blasted. Then coated with green oil all over to prevent... Two cycle oil?
Got the last bits of sand out of the carb. Pretty dang snug shafts.
Been apart once before and that's about it. This one got the new kit from a local supplier.
Funny how a stainless needle wears more than the brass seat...
ANY LITTLE BIT OF FOOLISHNESS from this carb and the original needle and seat will get reworked and put back in.
That Viton or what ever tipped needle doesn't FALL away from the seat during checks.
Raise the float, let it go and ya wait a second or so before the needle drops. Don't like that.

Back to the fuel pump. Cleaning up and making ready for the expensive kit to come there.
Naturally, son found one for half on Tbay.
Gotta wait until next week likely.
What to do now? Else I get back to work on my brand... :cool:
Drain the oil in the 20, pull the pan and see why the oil pump didn't fill the oil filter base when the PO's tried to start it last year or further back. Remember above? A couple drops of water in the Purolater base. No oil. 30 years.
(Been here before. Fall of '16, waking an '18 model T with a '23 engine. Good thing the cam timing was way off...
Oil tube blocked completely. Accessory oil line plumbed to a dead end bolt hole... All squared away, popped right off)
One good thing. The 20's oil troughs have oil in them. Maybe daughter and Maw will help me get the 20 UP this Hill.
Son works crazy hours right now for a short as a Food Fed. Spoke with him tonight. Not this weekend...
Have a three year olds Birthday coming next month and we must have a something or two very ready to go for that.
Three year olds and old tractors? Oh yeah! Almost Double Time. Much to do.
Crap, that 14's fuel tank needs to come off too. Scale...
Mind gone.
:salute: :bonk:
 

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Ncooley23

Registered
This little sweetheart showed up today. Not bad at all! Came in from PA.
Been blasted. Then coated with green oil all over to prevent... Two cycle oil?
Got the last bits of sand out of the carb. Pretty dang snug shafts.
Been apart once before and that's about it. This one got the new kit from a local supplier.
Funny how a stainless needle wears more than the brass seat...
ANY LITTLE BIT OF FOOLISHNESS from this carb and the original needle and seat will get reworked and put back in.
That Viton or what ever tipped needle doesn't FALL away from the seat during checks.
Raise the float, let it go and ya wait a second or so before the needle drops. Don't like that.

Back to the fuel pump. Cleaning up and making ready for the expensive kit to come there.
Naturally, son found one for half on Tbay.
Gotta wait until next week likely.
What to do now? Else I get back to work on my brand... :cool:
Drain the oil in the 20, pull the pan and see why the oil pump didn't fill the oil filter base when the PO's tried to start it last year or further back. Remember above? A couple drops of water in the Purolater base. No oil. 30 years.
(Been here before. Fall of '16, waking an '18 model T with a '23 engine. Good thing the cam timing was way off...
Oil tube blocked completely. Accessory oil line plumbed to a dead end bolt hole... All squared away, popped right off)
One good thing. The 20's oil troughs have oil in them. Maybe daughter and Maw will help me get the 20 UP this Hill.
Son works crazy hours right now for a short as a Food Fed. Spoke with him tonight. Not this weekend...
Have a three year olds Birthday coming next month and we must have a something or two very ready to go for that.
Three year olds and old tractors? Oh yeah! Almost Double Time. Much to do.
Crap, that 14's fuel tank needs to come off too. Scale...
Mind gone.
:salute: :bonk:
Jax will be 2 years old
 

Duey C

Subscriber
Age
56
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
Oops, only 2. Well I did lose track of how old you kids were in about the 5th grade so I'm right on track...
Hey, does anyone KNOW how long the F-12/F-14 fuel pump pushrod is actually supposed to be?
This one is 6-15/16" and perhaps should be an 1/8" longer...
No wonder some cobbling had been done to the pump mechanism to actuate it better.
If I pin the three parts together, I can be right about where I want to be and he'll pump. Not up against a head or any pressure involved, it just runs thru the hood ornament or fuel lines under the hood for overflow to the carb. Apparently the needle and seat couldn't handle the pressure form the pump directly...
 
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Duey C

Subscriber
Age
56
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
F-14 bits.
Fuel pump:
0162. The rocker arm and the links. I did make another wire "shim" to add to reduce play.
0349. That mess put together.
4268. The best fitting gasket needed a little bit of adjustment.
Didn't lengthen the pump pushrod.
Tank needs to come off to address the scale. Oh boy. Cut a starting fuel line? Fittings worn down/off...

F-20.
Oil pump.
9440. So I drained the water and then the oil.
4173. Oh oh. That's bad. Aha. It was November in MN. Frozen? Shear.
Detective work and draining the water and oil pays off to show things that are worse than a fella hopes.
5668. Oh oh. See the white metal all over? What a bear to photograph. 4's Babbitt.
Splash lube for the engine. Troughs for the rods in '36. It worked fine.
TC had pressure oiling in 1918.
The fun stuff and differences.
:)
 

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Duey C

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Age
56
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
F-14 Fuel tank and pump.

Not very interesting.
127 & 360. Guess what needed to be done. Scale. Looked inside after installing the pump, big scale around the riser tube and a little slice in the riser tube. Enough. Get it cleaned up before the rain comes.
I did touch the outlet valve and thought it turned a bit... Stop.
Enough gas fumes I wasn’t touching it with the propane torch. Not this time.
519 & 702. NICE reprint came with the spendy kit from farmallparts/pacific supply group.
See paragraphs 16, 17 and NOTE. Free to move diaphragm. :)
There is a slightly shorter screw to mate the halves together that belongs right above the #37 rocker arm.
796. First a small wire, then the big gun (wire) and got the starting tank line cleaned out pretty nice.
Got the wrecked fittings sorted out and free to turn. Then coerced some anti-seize in between for down the road.
This might be an early fix-up for the IH guy we got it from. Been a LONG time since apart last. 30 years likely.
Haha! Painted! Since then he leaves them in their working clothes! They look good in their regular duds.
Son wants to try Kero and so do I. More to do there. Shutter is stuck on COLD tho. A T friend in New Zealand’s F-14 w/single front wheel is set to HOT and he uses gas/petrol. Not sure yet if he can move his heat control. Gotta pester him.
Back at it. 1/4“ of rain this evening. Needed it. More maybe tonight.
:bonk: :salute: :)
 

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Duey C

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56
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
F-14:
Hit a snag with the fuel lines last night. Snag should be cured on the morrow.
Rust hole in the steel fuel line between the starting tank and the main tank valve.
Have fuel line fittings coming locally. I’ll get some copper line locally also. I hope.
These fittings also serve the...
Shoot, just look at 7955. Interesting fittings. The "ferrule” breaks off the fitting and seats itself on the line...
Pretty universal line fittings. This pic is from Steiner’s. 12‘s to M’s.
6076. The scale that got into the little gas can before I realized how bad the tank was.
The little funnel looked way worse. 796 above is the holey one.
Tomorrow’s another day! :)

F-20:
6081. Needed something to do tonight. Remove one bolt and loosen the other, a couple taps from the copper hammer and the oil pump came down. That pan was a breeze! Dented up steel pan instead of cast iron. Light!
Doggone it. Pretty nice #4 journal and wet too. What happened to this sad 20?
Laying down on my cardboard sucks!
4771. Carnage in the box of a ‘24 Ford short box...
Troughs full, rust in the bottom, twisted off oil pump shaft (frozen November trials),
Sir Top‘em Shaft and the drive gear sits down on the pump body and the #4 bearing looks pretty brassy.
Sloppy Azzed Loose. #1 is about the same. See the white metal in the pan? Bummer.
2 and 3 are pretty fair yet... Strange?
Does the dipper-trough pee tube for the four rods come out of the block? I’m sure it does.
Needs attention. Another oil line from the front of the pee tube UP to... where? Gears?
Yet a filter line heads up front for what I guessed was governor and gears. Help?
Whole affair sounds like an afternoon story!
These are the days of our lives... Remember the hourglass?
 

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