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2 New Old Onan CCK

Motorhead

Subscriber
Age
67
Last Subscription Date
07/09/2019
The 4 cck is a 68 and the 5 cck is a 61. Nice score. Better have some flowers or candy when your Wife comes home!
 

blousteau

Registered
The 5 is in rough shape. The intake/exhaust manifold is broken, I knew that before buying it and planned on using the intake from the 4. After some further playing last night, it looks like I may be using the engine from the 4 to power the 5. The cooling fins on the broken exhaust side are almost non existent! The 5 does turn over with a battery so at least the start windings are good. They must have been made for gorillas to start on the contractor model, bc I can not get it to spin fast enough to get a good compression reading. The results from the 5 were not that promising anyway.

Most likely will end up being a full teardown of both swapping parts to make one functional one. I am fascinated by the contractor model, but really want the electric start and the 5kw of power.

The CCKs are very hard to come by down here in Louisiana, and when they are found they are usually in bad shape due the cast iron blocks or totally trashed.

The Vacuflow one was owned by an old man, his nephew ended up with it after he died and it has been sitting for several years. It did come with the manuals and some sales literature. That was pretty cool.

I will get them broken down over the next few weeks and see what all I have that is good, bad, and ugly.
 

blousteau

Registered
Once I get to a point I know I will have one functional unit, I will be on the lookout for a LP / NG carb. I have both my 4BFA and Marquis 5500 converted over and do not want to fight gasoline. If I have to, I will get one of the conversation kits.
 

Motorhead

Subscriber
Age
67
Last Subscription Date
07/09/2019
To ME, The CCK's are the Ford Model T of generators. You can do about anything to them and they still run and generate. I'd bet you could get both wired up enough to both run and generate! They are rugged old S.O.B.'s

I would put the 5 cck head on to the contractor 4cck engine and leave the rope start as well as having electric start. One thing nice about the rope start is that if you have a weak battery, you have someone hold the electric start switch to start and then pull the rope.
The '62 5cck I have been working on, the only battery I have to fit under the cover when closed is a 10 year old, 51R which fits a Honda 4 cyl car. It doesn't have the umph to get the set rolling around from a standstill so I hold the start and grab the rope sheave in front of the vacuflo scroll and give it a tug. Damn thing starts right up.

Remember!!! The ignition coils on those sets are low voltage, either 4 or 6 volts. So if you are trying to jump the coils with a battery to try to start them, you will fry the coils unless they have the resistor hooked in series with the battery.
 

blousteau

Registered
Between the two do the have the same cam? Only reason is bc right now I am planning on moving the points over to the motor from the 4 that was pull start only so I can use the controls off the 5. Want to make sure the cam has the lobe to run the points.
 

Zeromedic

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/08/2020
Old cck's?

Same cam, same crank, same rods pistons etc. for 1800 rpm.

Steve
 

gustavus

Banned
Old cck's?

Same cam, same crank, same rods pistons etc. for 1800 rpm.

Steve
The cams below are both from CCK's one has the lobe profiled for the mechanical fuel pump while the other is not.

To change your 1800 to a 3600 rpm engine remove five of the ten flyweight balls from the governor.



 

blousteau

Registered
Thanks, I didn't want to tear it down all the way and have to do a cam swap!

The 4's motor is torn down as much as I will need to to get it running. Turns out it sat a looooong time in a warehouse. One piston had fully seized rings, the other partially. I pulled the valves to clean them up and the pistons to free the rings and will most likely re-ring them and lightly hone the cylinders. The bores still show crosshatch so it must not have lived a very hard life. Beyond that and some cleaning of the inside of the block, it doesn't look like I will have to go any further on teardown on that motor. I will probably use some diesel and wipe as well as I can the crank and the cam, then try to hit them with some assembly lube for startup. The oil base needs some heavy sludge cleanup.


After reassembly, I will run it with some 30wt and Seafoam to clean things out more and do an oil change immediately after that run.

My first CCK and I am extatic. I have a 4 BFA, 5500 BGM, a 15 JC and a 12 JC, and 7000 HGJAB (in the RV). I have always wanted a CCK.

Even mostly stripped down, I can tell why they last so long. That cast block is a heavy chunk compared to the aluminum blocks of my other smaller ones! Just do not understand why they didn't put an oil filter on them?

I am still considering trying to get both functional, but the 5CCK will be the one I use the most, or should I say play with the most. Since the original engine block on the 5CCK is pretty bad on the outside, and the intake is cracked, it will end up on the 4CCK contractor model as time and budget allows.
 

gustavus

Banned
Thanks, I didn't want to tear it down all the way and have to do a cam swap!

The 4's motor is torn down as much as I will need to to get it running. Turns out it sat a looooong time in a warehouse. One piston had fully seized rings, the other partially. I pulled the valves to clean them up and the pistons to free the rings and will most likely re-ring them and lightly hone the cylinders. The bores still show crosshatch so it must not have lived a very hard life. Beyond that and some cleaning of the inside of the block, it doesn't look like I will have to go any further on teardown on that motor. I will probably use some diesel and wipe as well as I can the crank and the cam, then try to hit them with some assembly lube for startup. The oil base needs some heavy sludge cleanup.


After reassembly, I will run it with some 30wt and Seafoam to clean things out more and do an oil change immediately after that run.

My first CCK and I am extatic. I have a 4 BFA, 5500 BGM, a 15 JC and a 12 JC, and 7000 HGJAB (in the RV). I have always wanted a CCK.

Even mostly stripped down, I can tell why they last so long. That cast block is a heavy chunk compared to the aluminum blocks of my other smaller ones! Just do not understand why they didn't put an oil filter on them?

I am still considering trying to get both functional, but the 5CCK will be the one I use the most, or should I say play with the most. Since the original engine block on the 5CCK is pretty bad on the outside, and the intake is cracked, it will end up on the 4CCK contractor model as time and budget allows.
On the CCK's without an oil filter fitted you'll note the engine block casting has the boss in place for the filter mount.

I suspect it would be a simple matter of drilling the oil passage and tapping a couple of holes, to add the filter.

Both my Simplicity 9020 and Allis 720 made in 1974 have their original Onan engines, one was rebuilt before it came into my possession.
 

gustavus

Banned
On the CCK's without an oil filter fitted you'll note the engine block casting has the boss in place for the filter mount.

I suspect it would be a simple matter of drilling the oil passage and tapping a couple of holes, to add the filter.

Both my Simplicity 9020 and Allis 720 made in 1974 have their original Onan engines, one was rebuilt before it came into my possession.

As an experiment to explain the Onan engine longevity. From another Onan engine block that I scraped took a piece of the casting and submitted it into nitric acid any chrome or nickle in the alloy would have turned the acid a distinctive color.

Neither color appeared but after the cast has completely dissolved there was a lot of undissolved material on the bottom of the beaker I suspect this was silicon.

The highly desirable GM engines with the 0.010 and 0.020 cast into the engine block, those numbers indicate the percentage of nickle that was added into the casting alloy.

The resulting casting a much better grade than the sewer cast used to make Chinese clones.
 

HBSaunders

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
On old gm 350 blocks 70's-80's 010/020 in front of engine area of timing gears indicated high nickel-tin alloy content. Found this on some 4 bolt 2 ton Chevy blocks, just for information.
 

Motorhead

Subscriber
Age
67
Last Subscription Date
07/09/2019
I would say the best way to find out if it has the cam with the fuel pump lobe would be to remove the cover and expose the opening for the fuel pump arm to go into the engine. Insert a flat tool in the slot and turn the engine by hand. You should feel the lobe rising and falling if it is there.
I am guessing, but as early as both of those sets are, I am speculating that they would both have a fuel pump cam in them. :shrug:
 

blousteau

Registered
Connecting Rod bolt lock / retainers. Anyone know where to get those or did you reuse the old ones. I bent the tabs out to remove the bolts but not sure if they are suitable for reuse.
 

Motorhead

Subscriber
Age
67
Last Subscription Date
07/09/2019
Connecting Rod bolt lock / retainers. Anyone know where to get those or did you reuse the old ones. I bent the tabs out to remove the bolts but not sure if they are suitable for reuse.
If you are careful removing them, bending them JUST ENOUGH to get the nut or bolt out, then they are reusable. Are you taking BOTH engines apart? Of the many I have rescued, I have yet to go any farther than removing a head from a CCK to check the bore and valves. I have rescued some real SORRY ones and had them as good runners with very minimal work. Remember, these things, Onan generators, were rarely used for the most part so many are very low hours, like under 1000 hrs. These CCK's were BUILT STOUT.

One exception is the 7.5 JB I bought from another member here with 6000 running hours on it. I haven't had it really running yet so I am hoping the bottom end is good with that many hours. Again, even with 6000 hours, I'd bet it was running at HALF or less load most of those hours.
 

blousteau

Registered
The 4 has the pistons and rods out right now. They had to come out due to low compression. Piston 1 had rings fully seized all the way around, Piston 2 fully seized about 1/2 way around. That would explain the low compression. It sat for a very very long time.
 

blousteau

Registered
Two new pistons / wrist pins / rings on the way. Tired of fighting the fully seized one. Those rings are in there good! After I decided to get two new piston kits, I went full bore on that one. Heat, chemical, hammer, etc. (all in various mixed orders) Nothing will free them up. I got the ones out of the partially seized one but figured if I was going to go with one new piston, I might as well do both. Probably going to need one intake and one exhaust valve too, unless I can salvage one from the other motor. One intake and one exhaust valve cleaned up nice and shiny, the other two are a little rough all around.

Stuck waiting for parts now. Did some degreasing of the parts last night. Will begin separating the engine from the gen on the 5 this evening. The tin is all still there on the motor, I'll post a pic if the cooling fin rot if it is as bad as I think it will be when I remove the tins.
 

Motorhead

Subscriber
Age
67
Last Subscription Date
07/09/2019
Are you going to have the engine bored to get a clean bore for your NEW pistons? I'd save all good valves and use them for the engine you are building. The exhaust valves for a CCK aren't cheap as I believe they are Stellite material.
 
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