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3 Hp Challenge Hour Glass

Rich Mueller Sr

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Got this from Ohio today, https://youtu.be/GdokMyvtTEA first time Fastenal has screwed up for me, first one I had crated and they run a forklift blade through the crate side and yanked the top off. Luckily NO damage other than the box and the box was loose on the pallet, with the nails bent over, so they knew they done it!! Had to take a pretty good lift to, Tom Winland had it nailed down good!! 3PL and Kerry Sanchez got a call , and, not to nice of a call, today on it!! will put a video up as soon as it gets uploaded, had another one on phone but is on face book after I got it slowed down and muffler repainted. Just lucky this didn't get tore up, today I am not a big fan of Fastenal!!It is a 3 hp, not a 2 hp has the 41/4" bore and 3 hp flywheel part numbers for a 3 hp on it and other places, no tag but after 6000 serial number when they went to 3 hp..
 

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Rich Mueller Sr

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Got my 3 hp Challenge Hour Glass on a Jim White cart today, wish it had small wheels all around, sorry about the light in shed, https://youtu.be/ajhG38VtSwk , Got a decal to put on both sides of the hopper, and, thinking about having it striped and Challenge painted on the boards under engine, got to take about 3 " off the battery box yet and paint that up so it can be striped at the same time. And get the end of the gov weight eyelets brazed up, then springs, and, a timing tweaking , and, cam roller adjusted right so it don't pound so much, a nice little tight engine!! Happy Thanksgiving !!
 

SMertz

Registered
Last Subscription Date
03/09/2010
congrats on another nice engine, rich!

sorry to hear fastenal screwed up, but it seems there is no such thing as a reliable and affordable shipping company anymore. i guess if we want it safe for sure, we just have to go get it ourselves.
 

Rich Mueller Sr

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
congrats on another nice engine, rich!

sorry to hear fastenal screwed up, but it seems there is no such thing as a reliable and affordable shipping company anymore. i guess if we want it safe for sure, we just have to go get it ourselves.
Thanks yea I am very glad I had Tom Winland take the muffler off on a Challenge like this not much meat there on head that would have been a disaster. Luckily no damage
 

Rich Mueller Sr

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Got it all wired up battery box painted, the crank shield painted , but , scratched that up tried to repaint , found it was too cold for that today, it bubbled up, now to get the eyelets brazed up and put the stripes on it , this is out in the sun https://youtu.be/2PfNKUJUaGg ..
 

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Rich Mueller Sr

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Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Finally warmed up and feeling better, I bought a cart off a good friend Jim White, I didn't like the big wheels on the solid axle on this small of a engine, so, with some arm twisting, he sold me 2 small wheels, and I put a wood block under the rails makes it look a lot better https://youtu.be/ySEuXIV4IpY Also got my fitting box out and got the fuel line straightened out, they had a old piece of garden hose in between 2 shorts, I found out why it took a lot of scrounging around in my fitting box , and after the 2nd try I got it right no leaks, first time I cracked the brass short and then broke it off in the tee, so a new tee trying to get a leak fixed, all good now ,off to the striping lady and get the governor eyelets fixed by brazing and drilling, I think this might have become one of my favorites along with the Gade, that gets a original cart soon to from Iowa...
 

WCraig

Registered
Last Subscription Date
02/07/2018
Rich, thats a really nice engine. If Im not mistaken, I believe I saw that engine when I went and picked one up from Tom Winland. It looks alot different now. You did a great job.
I do have a question about it. Did it ever run off a magneto? I know alot of guys have converted some engines over, but I didnt see a place for a mag on your Challenge.
 

Rich Mueller Sr

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Yeah this is the one Tom Winland had, he had it listed as a 2hp, but I noticed the 3 hp part numbers on the fly wheels, and, a couple other places . and found the part numbers on Steve Barrs site , http://www.oldengine.org/members/sbarr/Challenge/Challenge.htm in the Hourglass engines after 6,000 serial number, parts page, this one has no tag, but the little screws are there.As far as a mag that I don't know, it looks like the timer on others and parts page I have seen, as someone painted it before I got it , wish better, but you don't see these to often,ya snag a fish when ya can ,lol, I knew of a 11/2 to for sale, but, I need a enclosed trailer /toy hauler, is the next BIG bucks to be spent, getting really hard to sleep in the truck camper with the RA advancing......I also found some 525 25 Champion nos plugs on ebay to they are the good ones it made the Gade run better to, those silver ones are JUNK..
 

WCraig

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Last Subscription Date
02/07/2018
Rich, you mentioned this was one of your favorite engines. What are your top 5 favorites that you own?
 

Rich Mueller Sr

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Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Probably the 6 hp Hourglass, 8 hp Muleteam, 41/2 United, and a original Choreboy 1914, and the Gades, kinda attached to all of them , some just run better and more easier to mess with these days. Love to run the 8 Muleteam in the shop or outside, a nice and slow run. The Challenge hoisting rig is a oddball, been thinking about making a little sled and find some older rope to make a kiddie ride, maybe some of us older guys might get a kick out of it to, at shows. Its one you have to be really aware, of, where you put your hands, finger, etc, if you really like them well!! Also at shows, I never, let it to close to the roped off area and get nervous about little kids around it, there is NO second chance or mercy with it , with the cage around it, and gears and close spaces of castings and wheels, without the cage!! This is the 1 S Challenge hoisting rig https://youtu.be/760BTxCQfNU
 

WCraig

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Last Subscription Date
02/07/2018
Id like to see a picture of the Chore Boy or the United. I had a chance to buy a smaller United and Im still kicking myself.
 

WCraig

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Last Subscription Date
02/07/2018
Im fairly new to the old iron scene, but Ive been looking around for awhile now. Are the Challenge engines very common? I see alot of the same brands for sale or on display, but from what I can tell, the Challenges are somewhat rare.
 

Rich Mueller Sr

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
I posted this on Facebook RARE is for meat, unless your Jon Rozenvick, his term for rare meat is, RAW, lol, but think Rare and more will come out of the wood works, uncommon, Yes, unless it would be a Challenge featured show , you wont see 5 or more at a show , I have found. Not that many early ones around, and the Hourglass engines dont come up that often or real$$$$, unless your as lucky as Tom Nowak, his 4 hp , if he didn't buy it, I was going to KC real fast!!
 

Rich Mueller Sr

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
First of all, not a tear in my beer, even though I No longer drink, ,pity, or blame, where this engine come from, just a reminder of WHAT can HAPPEN out there to these old guys, read on I found another 2 hp that did the same thing in the UK , and weirdly just not long ago to.. Ok I went to the Elsberry Mo show and on Sunday morning I noticed a little wobble in the right flywheel on this guy, a friend looked it over with me and we both thought we where seeing things, checked it over GOOD, started it up, sat down, 5-10 mins later I heard a LOUD CLANG, WE all hate to hear that CLANG, I looked over and the left flywheel was stopped, the right cam gear side was coasting to a stop, and the pictures below is why. The one I read about and contacted by a gent in the UK, had the timer for the buzz coil short out and they think it fired AT RUNNING speed wrong and the piston stopped, the flywheels kept going and snapped the crank in the exact same position, I have not found where mine done this as of yet, this break was very old, could it have happened long ago and no one knew it or a flaw or mishap of some sort? That will never be known I guess, but THIS IS A REMINDER of what will and can happen, and would have been REALLY disastrous if the cam gear had been on the other side and this would have continued to run and TOTAL self destruction and shrapnel would have been thrown all over , just lucky this time no one hurt, and either a NEW crank made or hopefully another can be found. A REMINDER NEVER leave these old guys running by them selves and watch the speed, another issue it could have over speeded, one day in its 100 yr old life time and fractured the crank, unknown, by the spring breaking on the gov , this style has a spring that holds tension to slow the engine down, if the spring would break it would take off and be thrown apart, which the crank usually breaks first,unless shut off real fast.. So I guess I need a crank for a 3hp Challenge hour glass, anyone have one in their hip pocket lol BUMMER, not the words that was going through my mind at the moment , I cant print that on Harrys site!!
 

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WCraig

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Last Subscription Date
02/07/2018
Rich, sorry for your bad luck. I loved hearing this engine running in the videos that you have shared with us. I hope you can find a replacement.
 

Rich Mueller Sr

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Well this old girl went to the ER Monday to get a new billet steel crank made, been a while since I felt like messing with it and Chris had the time to do it. I never took it apart Chris wanted to measure everything the way it is now, just removed the crank shield and oiler.
 

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WCraig

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Last Subscription Date
02/07/2018
Rich, I'm anxious to see how this goes. I really like this engine and I hope it gets fixed soon. Ive kept my eyes open on Engineads, but I never seem them for sale. Please keep us posted on the progress of the repair.
 

Merv C

Registered
Rich.
that was a disaster and unless the repair can be done at mates rates it is an expensive exercise.
Did you have the engine running slow? although I know they sound great running slow I prefer to have my hit and miss engines running about three quarters of their rated speed. The reason for this is because on the firing stroke they they suck in a full charge and the resulting explosion puts a lot of stress on the back end of the engine eventually causing excessive wear on the big end and I have heard of engines breaking in half. the extra stress will exploit any weakness the engine may have.

My throttlers mostly run at the rated speed.

Merv
 

Rich Mueller Sr

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Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
It was running about half rated speed , I know about the stresses of running to slow without retarding the timing ATDC, and on the Hourglass engines the timing can be adjusted by the bullet shaped handle on timer. What transpired before I got it is unknown and run all summer at shows with no problems ,noises etc until the very last one. Also this was a running engine when bought to, not many hourglass 3 hp around so it could be why ,a flaw in the canks and only used on the 3hp, 2 hp and later flattops are different. ...
 
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