• If you like antique engines, vintage tractors or old iron machinery, register and join us. When you register on Smokstak, please give complete answers and fill in all blanks. IF YOU ARE ON WIRELESS, GIVE YOUR CITY AND STATE! NO ZIPCODES! We get hundreds of applications, so there is no time to deal with missing information.

'56 International 4WD Brush Truck Series S-140

Beth V

Moderator
Last Subscription Date
03/03/2018
I've crossed over from the steam engine side :eek: to this side in search of information.:D

We just pulled my Dad's '56 International 4WD Brush truck series S-140 out of the barn. Dad never did much with it because the brakes are a problem.....doesn't have any!

It used to be the brush/water truck for the local fire department. It even has a working winch on the front! Dad had it physically restored to perfection, but the brakes never played along.

Might someone have an owner's manual for it or a good supply of brake information?

Thanks!
Beth
 

Attachments

MoRo

Subscriber
Age
58
Last Subscription Date
10/15/2019
One solution: A short chain and an big anchor!:crazy:

Seriously though, ( Why do folks start laughing when that line is used?) What happens to the brakes? Does the master cylinder lose it's fluid? If so, does it have any vaccuum assist on the brakes? If so, a bad diaphragm in the booster will allow the engine to suck the fluid from the reservoir into the engine and burn it off.
If it doesn't have any power assist, which I suspect, and you know there're no leaks anywhere, did whomever overhauled the brakes get them bled right? Are the cups in the master cylinder installed correctly (Don't ask how I found this out on an old R-100 I did the brakes on).
Fill us in on all the good stuff.
 

Beth V

Moderator
Last Subscription Date
03/03/2018
Hi Monte!

I should have known you'd be in on this!;)

We just brought it home today. I've got to revisit the subject with my brother who was around when they were trying to fix the blasted things. Rol said something about they just couldn't make the rebuild work??

Since my hubby doesn't care for steam engines:( , this is the next best thing. He really admired my Dad's truck collection and wants to see them well cared for. This is his project....plus it will be a nice self propelled "water wagon" for my Port Huron!:D

I'll keep you up to date!

Thanks
Beth
 

MoRo

Subscriber
Age
58
Last Subscription Date
10/15/2019
I overhauled the master cylinder on a '54 R-100 a few years back. The rebuild went fairly well, but one wheel cylinder leaked some, which allowed air to come back into the system. This did not render the brakes totally useless, but it gave them a spongy feeling sometimes. You just drove carefully on icy roads!
I'm interested to find out what's really wrong.
 

Beth V

Moderator
Last Subscription Date
03/03/2018
Monte,

As soon as Barney gets into it, I'll let you know. We had more rain today, so I don't think he'll be moving dirt tomorrow.

Our good mechanic was working on it for Dad & he could always fix anything! That is what has us puzzled. Barney already has plans to call some people which is why any & all information we can glean is important.

Thanks!
Beth
 

Andrew Mackey

Moderator
Last Subscription Date
05/14/2017
Beth,
I had an L120 3/4 ton long bed, it was the the 108th of the type, a 1950 title, but actually built in 1949. The S/N was F-9108 During the 12 years I owned it I had the following recurring problems: 1)master cylinder failure. I rebuilt it 3 times, after which IHC no longer had rebuild kits available, and it was replaced by 3 NOS units. Both the rebuilds, and the new units would work for about 2 years, and then would leak past the front cup. probable cause of failure - location. the cylinder was in a place where it would recieve road splash from the left front wheel, allowing road grit and salt to attack the flimsy rubber boot. 2)rusting out steel brake lines. The entire set were replaced twice. Cause of failure - proximity to frame, the lines were exposed to all weather, and did not dry off quickly.3)rubber brake hoses. all 3 were replaced 4 times Cause of failure - cracks in rubber. Normal wear and tear. 4)shoes and drums Replaced 5 times, during the time I owned the truck. Normal wear and tear. The truck had 49,000 miles on it when purchased, and I added 250,000+ albiet with a replacement engine and trans. It was scrapped due to extensive front end damage, due to high speed collision caused by catastrophic master cylinder failure (new (3 weeks old)cylinder blew all seals during a panic stop condition) IE - I stomped on the brakes, and the pedal went right to the floor-and stayed there:shrug:
The S series was the 4 wheel drive version of the L. The 140, should be the 1 ton version Check the condition of the wheel cylinders as well as the master. If any are bad, REPLACE ALL:rant: Introducing fresh fluid into old cylenders is bound to produce leaks in the near future. I talk from experiance:(
Andrew:D
 

Beth V

Moderator
Last Subscription Date
03/03/2018
Thanks Andrew!

I knew there are people out there with practical experience. Dad had a soft spot for the truck and wanted to bring it back to life.:D

I'll give that info to my husband & see what he comes up with. He also plans to touch base with George Mitchell-the IH truck dealer in Perrysburg, OH. George has quite the IH collection.

It doesn't sound like you had a great experience with yours, but you did keep it a LONG time! I have to look at this one, but it doesn't have many miles on it since it belonged to a fire department for most of its life.

Naive question: Why is the drive shaft and the rear end located off center & to the right? I just noticed that when we unloaded it (THAT was a trip with NO brakes!...sure am glad the hubby was behind me with the backhoe to hold it back!) I've attached a picture of it on the trailer right after we loaded it.

Thanks!
Beth
 

Attachments

maryjane30

Registered
that is such a cute truck!!

seriously tho, there might not be too much wrong.. usually evidence of what is wrong is very visible, u only have to take it apart and look. hope someone finds u an instruction book!


good luck, it looks like a lot of fun to drive, too.

M-J
 

MoRo

Subscriber
Age
58
Last Subscription Date
10/15/2019
The reason for the driveshaft coming off at such a strange angle is because when the 4WD was added, ( The 4WD is actually a jobber unit added on) The drive shaft comes off of the drop box now, instead of directly off the back of the transmission.
 

Bud Tierney

Registered
Binderbooks.com is supposed to have manuals for everything IHC (reproductions, I assume, but the info's what's valuable) and presumably would include brake work/special precautions/idiosyncrasies. For users experiences there's oldihc.com. Good luck.
 

John Hanson

Registered
Last Subscription Date
12/05/2008
Beth, shoot an email to Terry Dovre.. he'll be able to help ya most likely with any brake stuff..
I just PM'd you his email.
JH
 

Beth V

Moderator
Last Subscription Date
03/03/2018
Thanks everyone...I'll keep you up to date as my husband digs into it!

Beth
 

Rick McKay

Registered
Last Subscription Date
04/28/2015
Good evening,

I should knock on wood. I have a '56 S-110 2wd with 150,00 miles that I bought in '94 with a blown wheel cylinder. I rebuilt the wheel cylinder, and drove it through the rest of that year. I have not licensed it since, but use it around the shop for odd jobs during the summer. Crazy thing is, I haven't had to add a drop of brake fluid since I fixed that wheel cylinder!!!
Just watch........ now since I mentioned it, the brakes probably won't work when I take the old binder out of mothballs this month!!!!:bonk:

Old binders are fun!!!!

Rick
 

Andrew Mackey

Moderator
Last Subscription Date
05/14/2017
Beth,
I loved my old L-120 The original engine, a Silver Diamond 240 was shot when I bought it The early SDs (49-52) were good for 45 MPH, then you spun the poured bearings! The crank , on mine, was cut to 100 under, because the engine was run with NO bearings! I priced out a rebuild, after the Japanese bought out IHC, the prices went to hell in a handbasket! The later SDs (53-55) could get 50 MPH, as they had modern inserts. The next thing to break was the sodium filled exhaust valves! In '56, IHC redesigned the entire engine to todays standards - the Green Diamond engine. (probably what's in your S series, but I'd make sure) I had located a 55 SD 240, but the IH dealer wanted $1,000 for it, with NO guarenty as to if the engine was still good!:eek: I ended up modifying the engine mounts, and installed a '66Chevy 250 6 cylinder and a 3 speed trans. It cost me only $20, at the time, for a drive shaft shop to re-manufacture the front shaft to fit the Chevy trans to the IHC shaft, and install a new center support bearing. I used the hell out of that poor truck, And for the $50.00 I paid for it, it was the best truck I ever owned. I had people looking at it all the time! I once got pulled over by a state trooper, just because she wanted to look at it! Her father had owned one like it when she was a kid. One other item that saw a lot of wear was the front end king pins. (the part that the steering knuckles turn on. Mine were usually shot within 1 year of installation. This was probably due to the fact that the poor old L-120 spent most of its life at nearly double its builders intended speeds:bonk: With the chevy engine, a modified intake manifold (I installed a 2 barrel carb from a california Chevy 283 V-8 engine), and a good on the truck, wheel spin balance, it would cruise all day at 70MPH, and it got 18 MPG! I would not do this with your S-140 though. My truck was IHC green, with black trim, and the bed interior was IHC red. I had Chrome rails around the bed, to dress it up. The truck had a 141 Wheel base, 750-16 split rim wheels, a 410 Timkin rear end IHC Special built I think - it was a devil to get parts for), 8' bed, dual fuel tanks, 3/4 ton running gear, and at rest, the running boards were 14 inches off the ground! As long as the wheels were balanced, she ran at highway speeds just fine, Once the wheels became unbalanced though - look out. Balancing them was a real pain. After replacing the king pin bushings (I had it down to a science - both pins and all bushings, bearings, and seals in under 3 hours!), I had to rebalance everything. The rears were not to bad. I just bolted on the balancer, locked one wheel, and ran the truck thru the gears until it hit about 40 to 45 MPH (wheel speed about 85 MPH or so. Set the balancer intil you could stand a new nickle on edge on the fender, and you were set. The balancer told you how much weight, and where. The fronts were not that easy. First the durms had to be balanced. First the tires and rims were removed, and then the balancer was installed on the drum A long V belt was then placed on the OD of the drum, and was then run around the barrel of the spin balancer motor drive. This thing was a 2 HP repulsion start variable high speed motor (10,000 RPM), with a 6" diameter aluminum drum on the output shaft. You had to be real careful spinning up the drum, as if the belt ran off, the motor would snap it instantly, and send pieces all over the shop, where I worked. Anyway, I installed new drums on the truck, one year, and it took nearly 5 punces to balance them alone! they wer really poor castings!!! After the drums were balanced, the tires and rims were then mounted up, and then the balancer motor drum was used as a friction drive, directly on the tires them selves, If all was done right, I could get 85 % motor speed, without smoking out the shop too much, and balance the tires just like the rears - After pulling the motor away from the tire, I could balance a nickle on the fenders! The old IHC sure could ride smooth with all 4 tires set up! As i said, due to it's age, I had a lot of maintainance, but I loved every minute of it:cool: My only regret, that I could not find the parts I needed to repair it after it was wrecked. I have a new project now though - a 1963 Chevy C-30 Custom Special. It was purchased by our local Fire Dept, new, and in a round about way I ended up with it! Same problem as you - NO BRAKES:bonk: All 4 wheel cylenders NFG, ans all steel brake lines shot as well. One plus, the guy I bought it from just put in a new master cylinder!!! Keep us advised as to your progress!
Andrew
 

Beth V

Moderator
Last Subscription Date
03/03/2018
Thanks Andrew!

More rain is predicted this week so the hubby will probably attack it. He thinks an aluminum diamond plate bed would be nice......................

It seems like Dad said it would only make about 45mph, but that may be more the tranny than the motor...however until it has BRAKES, we are not going in there!:D

I've related much of everyone's comments to him, but he'll have to pull it apart himself & then apply what has been said. All I know is that when you push the brake pedal...it goes to the floor & NOTHING!

Thanks!
Beth
 

MoRo

Subscriber
Age
58
Last Subscription Date
10/15/2019
You're right about the (lack of) speed. Your ol' girl has some pretty steep ratioed diffs, as it's a "Tonner". If you were to drop the transfer case into low, and the tranny into "Granny" gear, you'd darn-near have to drive stakes to see if you moved! The setup you have is great for crawling around hills and other rough terrain. It'd also move a house, if you hooked up to it.
Andrew's right on with his assesment of IHC engines of the era your truck comes from. You didn't go very fast, but you got there!
My dad still owns a '54 R-160, though it's missing some major componants (the engine being one of them). It took a long time to run a load of grain to the elevator.
Later:wave:
 

Beth V

Moderator
Last Subscription Date
03/03/2018
Monte,

I guess we could put it in low range & go tail to tail with a steam engine.............but I bet my Dad would come back to haunt me!:eek: I'm not sure WHICH he would route for?:uhoh:

Beth
 

MoRo

Subscriber
Age
58
Last Subscription Date
10/15/2019
Lock 'er in 4-Lo and go tail-to-tail with one of these fancy-schmanzy new Diesels and pull 'em. My money's on your ol' Cornbinder!! (Specially if you fill that water tank about half-full!:brows:
 

Beth V

Moderator
Last Subscription Date
03/03/2018
Monte,

I bet it would work even better if I latch the winch onto something & have that be my "magic lever!":cool: :D

Beth;)
 
Top