American Abell Only

ChadYelland

New member
Heres the 32-120, I had a friend put 2 pics together to get it all in. I worked on. on of my first projects at the WDM, As it sits now on display. Its mechanicaly as close to original as we could, and the colors aren't a for sure but its the best we could do from hrs of research, sad its not running but it will stay compleat and inside from now on as part of the Centenial exhibit in Saskatoon Sk Canada.
 
J

Jim Jake Templin

Guest
Jeff Smith said:
Nice engine.

What is the pipe on the front with the chain on the floor?

Jeff

Cheap plow furrow marker. We still use a variation to plant with.
 

Jeff Smith

Subscriber
Can those front wheels turn to 90 degrees from the front? That seems like even though it is very long, it would make for a great turning radius?

Jeff
 

ChadYelland

New member
yes, its a plowing guide, without being able to see the front wheels you had nothing to go buy to steer, also its is a CC i think 9-14 and 14x14 B&S. She'll turn farily sharp, but that front pin has been broken off from doing so at some time, (need wheel brakes) that whole rigging sits on a crude tapered roller bearing with about 12 rollers or so, she did a lot of belt work at a sawmill and the rollers have worn deppressions from the vibration. as you can see in the oldest pic both of the skid rings were worn off from being dragged buy a Crawler at the mill, the WDM put it back together as best they could.
 

ChadYelland

New member
Some more pics, 2 are this very engine, the 3rd is a slightly older model with different style of water tanks, We had some debate over the white on the engine but look at the picture in winnipeg of engine # 2117? i don't think thats just the sun do you?? our engine is #2298 Anyone have production info on them? 2244?? is in the 1911 Cat, so ours is at least 1911 or 12 We have yet to do the decals and pinstriping. OH LOOK! there pulling a water heater in the parade! :bonk:
 

Colin

New member
hey guys this is what it looked like when we saw it yesterday afternoon. :brows: The restoration looks great, but its just begging to be run i think.:( i took picture of the bull gear becasue some people may not realize how they are split tooth like. Chad i asked if you were around there yesterday but they said you were gone.:wave: this engine went though a saw mill fire and the crank shaft was warped and it ran with a wobble. dad wondered if anyone knew that? he said he got to run it once back in the day and also has it on Super8 film! we need to see if we can get that stuff changed over. We also had trouble understanding how the CC works on this engine. the hi pressure side looks totaly independant from the low except for the cross over pipe. we were thiking there should be something to switch the exaust out the stack from the hi presure when its simpled. we were sure we were missing something and hoping someone could explain it:crazy:
 

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ChadYelland

New member
I can explain what all the pipes do tomorow, Far as i saw the flywheel had been broke as is welded, first ive heard of a fire, but could be. but first heres some snips of it, can't see even that Pipe and Chain guide let alone the front wheels!! this is the lever and the Intercepting valve.
Oh its a GS steering wheel, it look different now since i had it in the big Lathe
 

ChadYelland

New member
How it really works "Simplified" This must more the double the power of the engine, someone want to put this info into that formula in the back of the case book with all the "mean effective pressures" etc ic there kinda small, i have larger ones to email,, but theres how the AA does it, OK, if the Hp syl is the same as a AA 28-90 then it would be that + a Case 150 (14x14) right? so we get a 78-240hp right??
 

TracksNIowa

New member
I know it is just for short bursts or "emergencys" but if you simpled the 32 then theoretically it would be putting out way more power than a 150 case. How would the gearing etc hold up If you were pulling a really heavy load and were using the simpling valve comparitivly often? Case tried building a 150 engine with 32 gears and it didn't work out for them? My dad and I have discussed before about how most of the big rear mounts in this class where double cyclinder or cross compound. Is it because the jerky ness of a single that big tore up gears? Any thoughts?
Beau
 
As a Case owner, I will pass on the Case Road Locomotive question. Maybe Colin could answer that.:rant:

My comment has to do with the intercepting valve. While I realize this is "A-A only", I'm commenting on certain equipment.

I know of four cases of Reeves cross compounds that had terrible results due to the intercepting valve. Three of them were US engines and two had problems with countershaft bearings that pulled out of the back headsheet and wagon top of 32 hp Reeves cross compounds. It broke the studs or tore them out of the sheets and they were tapped into water or steam space. (that would sure ruin my day) The other engine was a 32 Reeves cross compound Canadian Special with an upper cannon bearing bolted into wing sheets, eliminating the problem of the above two engines. However this one broke the countershaft. I know of another 32 US cc that broke the countershaft, in lieu of tearing the bearings out of the headsheet and wagon top.

What happened is with a great load on the hitch, the engineer allowed the RPMs to drop too low on the motor, when opening the intercepting valve. With, in the neighborhood of, 150% of brake horsepower applied to the drive train, the master pinion on the crankshaft is trying to walk the intermediate gear right out of the gear train. It has a tremendous strain backward against the boiler. Something has to give and that is the area, at least on a Reeves, where it happens.

It is a remarkable valve, but needs to be respected. When an engineer knows he isn't going to make a hill or a tough spot, simple it early... Not late, or you are taking one heck of a chance with some prescious parts.
Gary;)
 

Colin

New member
This 32 or the other big cross compounds would have a lot of power on a quick pull but if you left it there very long you would likely be able to watch the steam gauge drop. the boilers wouldn't be near big enough to supply steam. it seems like the big thing in the early 1900's was compounds. but case did not want to build them. they only did so they would not loose sales. the 150 case was only built to 1904-07 standards. so it was too light for the size of engine and boiler it had. it had different gearing than the 110. another thing that hurt it was its speeds. low should have been down to about 2.2Mph. then it would not have tore up too bad. but the main problem anyways was the intermediate gear stub. so if they could have made a cross shaft, it would have fixed the problem. from some of the original letters we have the guys running them were recomending they scale down to an engine in the 32-110 range. so the effort went to that, instead of fixing the 150, and they got it right. :) I remember rick mannen or someone posted all the dimensions of this engine and boiler. its barrel is only 36" and i dont think it would figure out to much more than 32 hp. the 110s are 38.5. Dad remembers the old timers talking about these engines at Saskatoon and they said they would be stuck with that narrow front if there was a wet spot a 1/4 mile away:eek: Chad do you know if theres any other steam guys around that remember this engine running? dads wondering if hes one of the last guys around that have seen this engine run:shrug:
 
Colin,
There was a myth in the old days that operating a cross compound just a few yards will exhaust the boiler's steam supply. Those who felt that way, usually weren't a fan of cross compound engines. I don't know about the others such as A-A, Stevens, Advance, etc. but in a difficult pull, the Reeves (In good mechanical shape and running properly) cross compound will actually build pressure. Watch one in a tractor pull running simple. After working their butts off getting past the finish line, they will usually pop off. As they pull, they also generate draft through the boiler. The harder they pull, they more draft they make.

Max Tyler told me of their pulling he and Ruth's house from Moore to their farm, they had to pull the house on steel wheel dollies through a half mile (160 acre plowed stubble field) of summer fallow, pulling the house simpled. It wouldn't pull the load in compound, so they opened the intercepting valve and they still had over a hundred pounds when they reached the other side. The usage was fighting the capicity to rebuild pressure, but it sure didn't "suck it dry" as I've heard other "non-cc" fans claim over the years.

I met Slim Rennewanz in a urinating contest over this very subject. He hated Reeves engines. Especially cross compound engines.:rant: Later in the confrontation, I asked him how many cc engines he'd run? :shrug: He'd never run one. I already knew that because I'd read his book!:rolleyes:

Now... I will admit one thing. An unsuspecting engineer, unfamiliar with cross compound engines is succeptable to making one poor judgement; that being one of running the boiler pressure down too far AND using up the water in the glass. Turning on an injector and the make-up water's cooling effect will be on a crash course with diminishing pressure. One wouldn't want to be out of (injector operating) pressure and out of water in the glass at the same time.:bonk:
Gary
 

Beth V

Moderator
Hey Gary & Colin,

Excellent commentary...yet another reason for Colin to come down & gain experience actually running one! Colin hasn't pulled the throttle on a tandem compound either. It would be a grand learning experience!

Hey Chad,
Excellent job on the AA, I'd be glad to let you put the lagging back on my Port since you did such a nice job!:D Great pictures!

Beth
 

ChadYelland

New member
Hi Beth, ya the jacket made it sure looks nice doesn't it, too bad we couldn't find Canada blue plate like it had originaly, ( ALL Abells had jackets when new!!! ) The 2 peices on the cyliders were still shinny blue,, on the inside LOL. The AA ran last in 1978 or so just going by the inspection reports, theres a fair few still around even a "younger" fellow that ran it near the last. Anyone that has run a big single can you tell me if you, even under a real hard load can you lift the safety?? if so think of it like this you run one 14x14 cylinder like a big Case + a 9x14 with the steam that would have gone out the safety on a Case lol it just might be able to keep up,
 

ChadYelland

New member
Oh to hold all the wood on while jacketing, use string and some staples start at the top and work down eachside, slick way to go, could use fine wire then you could take the jacket on and off for inspecting
 
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