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Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

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gearedsteam

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No progress since my last report. I was hoping to work on it last weekend with Richard (my son).. but he was out of town and I want him to be there when we do something so he'll learn too.

We've definately not lost intrest.. it is just finding the time to break away from other chores. Went to the engine show in Sheridan, Ark weekend after last and didn't get to work on it then. I'm too beat when I get in from work to do much.. I have high hopes for this weekend.

Mike... thank you for asking :) . I been figuring everyone has us as a "flash in the frying pan"... were far from there. The intrest is still burning deeply. Its still on the bench waiting for us.

Dave
 

Mike S

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Age
35
Did you get it?
I have a small brass (bronze?) water pump like that one that I found at a garage sale for $2 that I'm working on. I plan to couple it to my Briggs 6S. I still need to paint the engine and build a base for it but I hope to have it done for our club's spring show in June.
 

gearedsteam

Registered
After a long dry spell, I've made some good progress on the 5s restoration.

See photos:

http://community.webshots.com/album/334990383DhXLtu


After stuffing as much clothesline rope down the spark hole (piston at bottom) I could, the flywheel nut came off easier than expected with a single CLOCKWISE turn of the wrench. Thanks again to Mike Murphy for the rope tip and Neal Behm for the Left Hand nut thread tip. The rope trick is unique & excellent. :)

After tapping all around the non-finned part of the flywheel with a wood block & hammer... it simply popped off on one of the taps. This was easier & quicker than I had expected. :D I was sweating this. Thanks for
all the tips from everyone on this.. I'll may get to use them on future restorations.

The flywheel key & keyway look in good shape.

The points & condenser look to be in good "physical" shape.. I expected much worse.

After removing the magneto plate unit, I could see the crank, rod and gear. Nothing looks broke.. but it was only a peep in a dark hole.. too early to tell.

Next, I removed the head cover. There was more carbon build up on the piston, valves, & cover than I had expected.. but this is my 1st time opening the cover on any engine...so I don't know what is "allot".

The head gasket seems to be in good shape.. with no cracks or breaks. How do you tell for sure.

I used plastic knife and a bunch of elbow grease & compressed air to remove allot of the carbon buildup. This stuff builds up like a rock. I've reached the limits of what a plastic knife will do on the carbon, and there is some
remaining. What else should I use for this .. solvents.. or ??? Keep in mind the head cover is aluminum.

Questions=========================

1. With the base plate, valve cover & valves still in place...where to I go from here on the restoration?

2. Do I need to go ahead and get the B&S valve spring compressor & B&S ring expander tool ... or ...?



Thank you all for your priceless advice & guidance,

Dave
 

Mac Leod

Registered
you can use a bit of diesel or kerosen to get through the carbon...not sure about the head gasket you have...I have seen two types used on small engines-one is metal covered and the othet is fiber of some sorts...I have used the metal ones over with out a problem-I have noever tried with a fiber one....about the carbon...I think the only way to tell if you have a lot of carbon is by checking the sparkplug-if its black and sooty it is too cold (a lot of soot inside)...if it is too hot it will show damage(no soot)...if it is some where in between-kinda a tan or white color It should be fine...These are just my thought on carbon build up (If I am mistaken, somebody correct me...)

Mac Leod---nice engine :)
 

gearedsteam

Registered
Mac Leod,

Your mention of the cold plug and the carbon jogged my memory on the plug... the plug that came on it is a Champion CJ-8 made for 2 cycle engines (thanks Andrew Mackey for this info). So this is the reason for the carbon buildup :) . Thanks for solving the mystery. I'll try kerosene on the carbon deposits to see if I have any luck. I've since got a new plug, Champ J8C which I hope is more like the J8 that this engine should run with.

Larry Dunlap,

Will try to reuse the head gasket. Would it be safe to use kerosene on it to clean off the carbon?

Thanks fellows for your advice & help...

Dave
 

Harry

Administrator
Staff member
Engine carbon isn't only caused by cold plugs. It is caused from too rich a fuel mixture, stale fuel, contaminates in the fuel, or a cold or lightly loaded engine. Using a hotter plug can help keep the plug cleaner, but the other problems need to be corrected too.
 
S

Simple Serf

Guest
I used two screwdrivers for years before I went out and got a Briggs valve spring compressor. I would get the valves out, and at least lap them and grind them to size. They are usually bad on most Briggs motors, esp the exhaust valve.

I always use a screwdriver to remove heavy buildups of carbon. A few scratches in the head and piston head won't hurt, just be careful and clean up the motor really good.

The simple serf
 

Larry Dunlap

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Age
72
Dave
I don't see any reason you couldn't use kero to clean carbon off head gasket.Just be carefull and take your time.BTW if there are any heavy deposits you might want to scrape them off carefully before you wipe with kero.
Larry
 

gearedsteam

Registered
THANK YOU for the advise & tips thus far... KEEP 'EM comming.

How do you remove the valves using two screwdrivers? I've
searched this site and can't find any ideas on how to do this.
Are there any risks of damaging anything or GOTCHAs using this method?
I've heard this is a two man job... are there any tricks to doing this
with man?

How do you check the rings for wear.. without a ring expander
tool?

As far as scratches.. I know what scratches & loose screwdrivers can do.. been there.. don't do it again. I am religious about useing either a wood toothpick, plastic knife or a brass brush for these.

Valve guides & springs ... how do you check these on a B&S?

The cylinder wall is dark with carbon too... another sign the engine was running badly when it was still alive.

Hopefully I won't need to hone the cylinder... I don't wanna unless I have to. Seems way over my head.

Have to go.. :mad:

Again... THANK EVERYLAST ONE OF YOU for your priceless tips, advice & guidance. Just bear with me I'm very slow as I have litte time to do the things I love (engines). We'll get this thing done.. eventually. :D

Thank you HARRY too! :D

Dave
 

Mike S

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Age
35
If you don't plan to work the engine it should run with very little compression. It just won't have any power and it will go through more oil. It will also smoke a bit.
 

Leonard Keifer

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Last Subscription Date
12/05/2018
I've gotten a 5S to start with as little as 15 pounds of compression (didn't run well, but it ran!), 30 is better, 50 or 60 is probably fine if you're going to use it on a mower.

If you're careful you can just slightly spread the rings on these little 2 inch pistons with your thumbnails and ease them off. Spread them too much and you're looking for a new set of rings.

After you get the ring off place it back in the bore of the cylinder, tap it a couple of times with the top of the piston to squate it up then use a feeler gauge to test end gap. From the Briggs Repairman's Handbook: ring end gap rejection size [for a 5S] compression rings 0.030", oil ring 0.035"
 

Ray Cardoza

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Age
34
Last Subscription Date
04/13/2010
The original plug for the 5 and 6 series engine was a J-8 champion of course. Sometimes you can get lucky and someone will have some nos (new old stock) plugs. The J8c is a modern plug and my experience with most of the modern champs is a failure rate of 2 to 1 two plugs fail after one use and one survives long enough to actually be useful. Do becaferfull with the fly wheel removal. I have a model 6 with a bad wheel its missing two fins. Good luck
 

gearedsteam

Registered
Progress Report

http://community.webshots.com/album/351089547jwxZAG

Mike S helped me identify that I had at least 1 stuck valve.

After a couple of weeks of Marvel Mystery Oil down the valve
holes... and gentle tapping with a wood board... no movement
in either.

I finally took off the valve cover, oil splash guard & breather unit
to have a look. What I found after turning the crank and looking
at the cams move was that both the exhaust valve & tappet are stuck.
At first the intake tappet was stuck.. but it freed up after a bit of coaxing.
I was able to get the intake valve to move down with some tapping & it will
go back up with the help of the cam. It still takes tapping to get it down & the cam back up. Very stiff. Neither valve will twist with finger pressure & I was afraid to try any tools on twisting these. I guess it will just take time.
I've switched to using PB blaster to see if this will help.

In looking in the intake port.. it looks like I'm not seeing the valve stem.. but rather the valve guide bushing or something. What I see is rusty looking & larger in diameter than the valve stem itself and extends from the bottom of the port hole to close to the top of the port hole. I'm hoping this is normal & the guide (bushing) has not worked its way loose from the head. Not a good shot of it but see this photo:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/351089547/351096600wHJLLz

Please share your thoughts, tips & suggestions.


Thanks everyone for your help.

Dave
 

Leonard Keifer

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Last Subscription Date
12/05/2018
First thing you'll need to do is compress the valve spring and remove the pin from the valve stem, if you haven't done so yet. This will allow you to eventually get the valve out. What I do is rotate the flywheel which makes the cam push the valve up, then I rotate the cam until I can see the space between the tappet and the valve; I place a thin bladed screwdriver in that space then rotate the cam again, repeating with thicker screwdrivers and pieces of metal until I can get the valve out.

Once the valve is out I sand the valve stem. Once that's smooth I put a little valve grinding compound on the stem and run it up and down the valve guide a few times until it moves smoothly. I follow this with a rinse or two with water and solvent to get the grinding compound out.

I've done this a couple of time and it seemed to work well.

The first time I had a stuck valve I tried pulling it out with vice grips and ended up buying a new valve!

Hope this helps.
 

gearedsteam

Registered
Until further notice, please "Private Message" me on this site rather than send be e-mails. :( I am unable to use my e-mail account but can access this site.... go figure :crazy:

The "Private Message" Link is also at the top right of all of this site's message page also

Just posting you message in this thread will work too.

Thanks for your understanding & extra trouble.

Dave
 
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