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Early Wolseley Engine

typak

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Last Subscription Date
07/30/2019
Saw this little Wolseley the other day and as the price was reasonable decided to take it home, seen a few of the early style horizontal flyball governor hit and miss Wolseley's but can't recollect seeing this type over the years, that said my knowledge of Wolseley's is a bit limited!, any knowledge when this style with the vertical governor was made and in what sizes?
 

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Scotty 2

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Hello all
I'm pretty sure these are known as Style 3 or S type. Made between 1920 and 1925. Before that they were a flick magneto and different induction and after that they had internal governor.
They came in 3 1/2, 4 and 5 1/2hp. I reckon this engine may have been towards the 1925 mark as that magneto became in wide use on the Style 4 (or R type). What's the number?
There's a number of these in QLD, not sure of the other states. Merv and the mob from the East island may be able to indicate if many exist over there.

These style 1-4 Wolseleys run very nicely.
Cheers Scott

At about 1:10 is one of our Style 4's running. It's a pity it's so windy. These Wolseleys sound nice.

 

Philipagri

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Very nice...and a style 3 on what looks like an original trolley. Would love to see a video of it running.
I have a style 4 or R type with the internal governor which was very seized when I got it and is now waiting to be put back together. These pre war Wolseleys are very rare here in the UK and much of the production seems to have been shipped to Australia and New Zealand. Unfortunately there are no factory records for them.
 

typak

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Last Subscription Date
07/30/2019
After a quick look at the David W Edgington Wolseley book it appears? that it is a T type that first appeared around 1916-17?, a thorough look over the engine revealed this number on the face of a flywheel, so probably a T type?
 

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Scotty 2

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Hello all
It's pretty easy to mistake this T type engine for an S type. This engine has an S type horizontal air pipe. The T type air pipes were vertical weren't they?
As I said in my previous post, the induction system was an indicator of which model of engine this engine probably was and that is why I asked what number is it.

It's a shame it's not all original. It would have made a nice rally engine.
It wouldn't have made any difference to me and a lot of other people but some people demand originality and, sadly, this engine aint with the apparently wrong induction and magneto. :O

Cheers Scott
 

Scotty 2

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Out of the above link:
If this was a style 3 it would have 3 holes in the flywheels. 1920 was when the style 3 came out, and they look just like these (style 2 or type T with solid flywheels) but with lighter flywheels.
The engine in question has holes in the fywheels doesn't it?
The serial number also has questions to be asked.
 

typak

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Last Subscription Date
07/30/2019
Out of the above link:

The engine in question has holes in the fywheels doesn't it?
The serial number also has questions to be asked.
You could ask on the TOMM forum?, or perhaps ask Al Grassby?
 

Scotty 2

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You could ask on the TOMM forum?, or perhaps ask Al Grassby?
Why? I can see the engine in question has 3 holes in each flywheel. And why ask on TOMM when you put this engine on Smokstak? Sounds a tad silly to ask on TOMM about an engine on Smokstak if you ask me.
Al Grasby is dead if you haven't heard. It makes it a bit hard to ask.
According to the link you provided, this engine is a style 3 as it has 3 holes in the flywheels.

All aside: this is a nice engine most people (including me) would be proud to have it in their collection even with the conflicting aspects of it. Only those who demand originality would see issues. I personally don't have issues with the discrepancies and simply see it as a nice old Wolseley.
I mean.....there are people who demand only engines made before 1931 and be totally period correct to be able to be shown at a vintage engine rally. Those people would question this engine. The rest wouldn't.

Cheers Scott
 

Wayne Timms

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Last Subscription Date
03/24/2019
We had a number of these in the family collection, 5 maybe 6 of them.... I distinctly remember 2 of them had a vertical flyable governor with a B&B carbie. The others had the horizontal flyable governor, exposed. I could probably still find a couple lying in the grass.

My point is this style 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 - why are there pre-style 1 engines?
So it is quite possible that not all modifications/changes happened at once.

Wayne
 

sunshineman

Registered
Hi typak
Malcom in your club will know for sure , he the expert on all wolseleys,
Check out the date of the maggy it may help with engine period
The photo I sent you with the same governor system and fuel system was dated 1925
Regards sunshineman
 

Merv C

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Typak, your engine is consistent with the S type style three and that is what I would call it, I think it is all original. However while I have the greatest respect for David Edgington's research there are variations to what he has published. I have experience of this in my own observations and research. So you have to take these old engines as they are. Sometimes there are crossover engines with both old and new model parts, and of course they are correct.

The number on the flywheel face has too many digits to be of any value unless it can be compared with other engines. Edgington states in his book that each model started each model at 1000. This is true for the "pre WD" but doesn't appear to be the case with the early engines, but they do appear to have their own series of numbers for each model.

I have a "pre WD" conveniently dated behind the Magneto at 1931.

Wayne, when David started researching Wolseley's he didn't know about the "pre style one" and his started his designation as style one in his first book.

Merv.
 

Scotty 2

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So it is quite possible that not all modifications/changes happened at once.

Wayne
Absolutely. With the holey flywheels, horizontal air pipe, vertical flyball governor, 2 piece body casting, magneto type is why I thought it to be an Type S but S-R crossover and put it roughly 1925.
Or the vertical induction may have just broke off and it was replaced with the sturdier horizontal air pipe. Been a portable this is quite possible. The vertical air pipe would be very fragile I'd imagine.

The numbers on the flywheel needs to be researched. I'm away from home so can't look in my books about it.
Someone told me that there was also a brass horizontal air pipe. Anyone else have any knowledge of them?

Cheers Scott
 

typak

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Last Subscription Date
07/30/2019
Hi typak
Malcom in your club will know for sure , he the expert on all wolseleys,
Check out the date of the maggy it may help with engine period
The photo I sent you with the same governor system and fuel system was dated 1925
Regards sunshineman
Thanks Sunshineman, I have been meaning to ask Malcolm at the next opportunity, as for the Magneto that is fitted at present? it's a Bosch ZE1 serial number 2577405? anyhow it is curious the conjecture regarding the styles and type and date of manufacture? the history of the engine is reasonably clear as it has been through the hands of some of the prominent Sydney collectors and the engine is said to be original but not the cart and tanks, no doubt there would have also been differences in engines of different horse power? as for all the speculation perhaps Scott is thinking of a Wheeler & Woolsey engine? whatever the case it certainly makes a fine garden ornament!
 

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Scotty 2

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perhaps Scott is thinking of a Wheeler & Woolsey engine?
What is a Wheeler and Woolsey engine? Never heard of them.
Cheers Scott
PS: better find an original muffler seeing you demand originality. Practice what you preach and all that.
 

typak

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Last Subscription Date
07/30/2019
Well Scott some excerpts to ponder? obviously the evolution of these engines is little more complex than strict styles or types? and the Kerosene engines were a later innovation?
 

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Scotty 2

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Well Scott some excerpts to ponder?
What's to ponder about on those ads? If you have shown me the second engine in those ads I would have said S type. The first is hard to tell what's what in that picture but by reading the accompanying words I would say it's an R Type just like ours.

I might be beneficial to the dopes like me who have no idea what point your trying to get across or what your trying to ponder. Just spit it out.

Cheers Scott
PS: What is a Wheeler and Woolsey engine?
 

Scotty 2

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Hello all
I am only doing this for the sake of the engines because, quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of the rubbish Typak continually tries to throw at me. I started out in this thread by giving information he asked for. And for thst all I got in return were attempts at put downs and slurs, so I'll try again.
The number on the flywheel is not the serial number. There maybe a raised pad just below and to the left of the magneto. The serial number may be here. If you also look at the mounting flange at thw bottom of the cylinder there may be a date. Look and see what's in these 2 places. With these numbers more information may be gathered.

I just got home and had I look at one of our engines and its amasing how things come back. On the back of the cylinder near where the bottom cooling pipe gets screwed into the cylinder may be another raised dimple with the serial number stamped in. So look at those 3 spots for numbers.

Cheers Scott
 
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