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Fairbanks Morse, 1.5 Horse, Throttle Governed Rebuild

davebrode

Registered
Hello All,

Long time lurker here, I'm working on this engine for my employer/friends.
1919, sn 368615.

The head is cracked [looks like freeze damage to me] From the lack of bearing, crankshaft, valve guide, wrist pin and cylinder bore wear, I believe that it didn't have much use prior to being stored.

The issue with this head isn't so much that it's cracked, but the seats are rusted away, especially the exhaust seat. It sat for decades covered up with a stack of burlap bags. I'm going to try to cut a new seat, but it looks like there isn't enough mat'l left. An ebay seller has one that has good seats, but it's cracked on top like mine, but also on the bottom. The weld job is horrible.

The piston is really nice, but the bore is pitted badly. I see no reference to oversized pistons. If I can't find something suitable, I'll have it sleeved back to std.

The rotating contactor in the ignitor is stuck. There's an issue with the little brass cover on the shaft side. it's loose and just flops around.

Question: Are these engines a ZB? I've looked and looked, and I've found pictures or videos on just four besides this one.

Thanks for any advice,
Dave
 

Attachments

joder

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
01/02/2020
Re: Fairbanks Morse, 1.5 horse, throttle governored rebuild.

Yes - it's basically an earliest 1 1/2 hp ZB with a head. It's a 1919 plugoscillator. Try looking up old threads on that engine. This was a short-lived transitional engine, bridging from the little headless with low tension ignition and the bosch (AB-33) high-tension later engines with heads.

I personally would try fixing what you have - these little engines are uncommon. The cracks can be welded or lock-n-stitched and new cast iron (or steel) seats can be cut-in at the extreme end of that method. There have been a few decent replacement heads over the last year or 2 show up on eBay so you can go that way, too if you don't mind waiting a little. In either method, prepare to pay more for the head work or new head than what you have in the rest of the engine.
 

Kirk Taylor

Registered
Re: Fairbanks Morse, 1.5 horse, throttle governored rebuild.

Hello All,

Long time lurker here, I'm working on this engine for my employer/friends.
1919, sn 368615.

The head is cracked [looks like freeze damage to me] From the lack of bearing, crankshaft, valve guide, wrist pin and cylinder bore wear, I believe that it didn't have much use prior to being stored.

The issue with this head isn't so much that it's cracked, but the seats are rusted away, especially the exhaust seat. It sat for decades covered up with a stack of burlap bags. I'm going to try to cut a new seat, but it looks like there isn't enough mat'l left. An ebay seller has one that has good seats, but it's cracked on top like mine, but also on the bottom. The weld job is horrible.

The piston is really nice, but the bore is pitted badly. I see no reference to oversized pistons. If I can't find something suitable, I'll have it sleeved back to std.

The rotating contactor in the ignitor is stuck. There's an issue with the little brass cover on the shaft side. it's loose and just flops around.

Question: Are these engines a ZB? I've looked and looked, and I've found pictures or videos on just four besides this one.

Thanks for any advice,
Dave
I am one for repairing the parts that are there. If there is enough metal under the seats, you can bore out the old seats and install inserts. The crack is an easy fix. The sleeving isn't a big deal either. It's just a matter of setting up and doing it, or paying someone else to do it.
That's a scarce engine; it would be nice to do it right.
 

davebrode

Registered
Re: Fairbanks Morse, 1.5 horse, throttle governored rebuild.

Hello Gents,

I'm embarrassed, as I just realize that it is the intake seat that I'm worried about, not the exhaust. I'll attach a pic of a head [not mine]. There isn't much material in the area where the seat meets the passage to the ignitor. No way that a seat insert would work.

btw, this is a family heirloom, in the family since new. I'll do my best.

Thanks so much.
Dave
p.s. - how many years was the 1.5h ZB manufactured?
 

Attachments

joder

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
01/02/2020
Re: Fairbanks Morse, 1.5 horse, throttle governored rebuild.

I think a full seat insert could be cut in and lock-n-stitched in place.
 

OTTO-Sawyer

Subscriber
Age
57
Last Subscription Date
07/15/2019
Re: Fairbanks Morse, 1.5 horse, throttle governored rebuild.

Depending on how badly pitted the valve seat is and where the pitting is located on it I'd try grinding it lightly to make the pits more visible and then see if you can change the angle of the grind on it to get it to clean up on one side or the other.

They may have been a standard 45 degree angle to start with but there's really no reason why you couldn't change it to 30 or 60 degrees (or anywhere in between) as long as you grind the valve to match.

:salute:
 

davebrode

Registered
Re: Fairbanks Morse, 1.5 horse, throttle governored rebuild.

Gents,
I'll have a closer look at the head tomorrow and report.
Thanks to all.
Dave
 

Skip Landis

Sponsor
Last Subscription Date
05/06/2019
Re: Fairbanks Morse, 1.5 horse, throttle governored rebuild.

They only made that engine for about 6 months in 1919
 

Junkologist

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
12/28/2019
Re: Fairbanks Morse, 1.5 horse, throttle governored rebuild.

They only made that engine for about 6 months in 1919
Skip is right. These engines were referred to as “1919 pattern” engines in original literature.

Here’s a video of mine running on diesel fuel.

 

davebrode

Registered
Re: Fairbanks Morse, 1.5 horse, throttle governed rebuild

Thanks, Gents,

I've seen the reference to 1919 pattern. [I've read here for many hours].

Junkologist, thanks for the video, I have several, but I somehow missed finding yours. It looks like yours is revved up higher than the others that I have seen!

I think that I can cut a new intake seat by sinking the seat 1/8" or so. The valves are rusted to a razor sharp edge too! I've seen new valves out there. Not to mention the section under the [missing] brass tag is freeze busted out. I meant to take pictures of the head today….

Still haven't been able to get the rotating contactor loose. Not sure how those shafts come out, anyone give me advice there? I haven't fooled with the mag yet.

Thanks again.
Dave
 

Jeff Taylor

Registered
Re: Fairbanks Morse, 1.5 horse, throttle governed rebuild

You may not need to sleeve the cylinder. I have seen many engines run just fine with pitted cylinders. I have some as well. I would suggest repairing the valve first and then seeing if it has compression. If t has compression it will probably run. How much running will the owner actually do with this engine? If it will only run once or twice a year it wont need to be perfect.

You also may not need to sink the valve seat 1/8". Take your time, do a little and check the seat as you go. You can buy new valves and sometimes you can use automotive valves.

Heads can be brazed as well. I have a 1927 Z with a brazed head.
 

davebrode

Registered
Re: Fairbanks Morse, 1.5 horse, throttle governed rebuild

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your reply.

The original head is really rough, The bridge between the bowl and the port to the ignitor was rusted away and paper thin, as in 1/16" It turned to dust when I tried to grind a new seat. I bought a decent head that has been frozen and broken on the bottom, but repaired with brass. Decent repair. Plus, being on the bottom, it will not be nearly as noticeable.

When I saw how thick the wall between the valve bowl and the port to the ignitor I was really surprised. I ground the seats, and I didn't have to sink the exh much at all, the intake took only a touch. I have been looking at automotive valves with chromed stems. The stems look rough as a cobb on the stock type replacement valves that I've seen.

The cylinder wall has a section with pits 1/8" deep! Many many others 1/16' or so. Sleeving isn't a big deal.

I'll post pictures in a day or two.
Thanks again.
Dave
 

davebrode

Registered
Re: Fairbanks Morse, 1.5 horse, throttle governed rebuild

I will get pics of carb, and many other small parts, already cleaned and painted [ford dark green used on T engines, it I hope that it's close]. They are at work.
 
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