• If you like antique engines, vintage tractors or old iron, please register and join us. When registering, please provide your CITY and STATE as your location!

Fired my air cooled Red Wing

BrianThomas

Registered
Hello every one. I fired my red wing Tuesday night and it runs good but I have some questions for the veterans. I have plenty of experience with the real versions of these models but not with the model en of it. So it started good and the little buzz box is very powerful. My questions are, what kind of fuel do you guys use? I tried gas and it stinks to beat all but ran fair? I tried Coleman fuel, it runs but is not as consistent in running like it is on gas. The next one is, the timer contacts will get dirty after about 20 min of running and I have to clean them all te time. It's more frequent than I think it should be? At this pace I'm going to need to make a new ring and post before you know it! I want to know a suitable plug gap and the latch out on the push rod ( how much space between the latch and the slider on the push rod) how much clearance on the rocker to push rod? I know the real engine are forgiving but this motor is tempermental.

Here's a video of it running.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGA-cOi8-Mk&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 

gbritnell

Registered
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

First of all, excellent build on your engine. As far as the timer contacts getting dirty you must be getting some arcing at the contacts and this is causing the dirt as you say. I don't know what type of buzz coil setup you are using. I have used the one by S&S and it doesn't seem to do that. On the question of fuel I use 86 octane pump gas. I know it has the unwanted 'smell' to it but I have found my engines run best on it. I know a lot of fellows who swear by Coleman fuel for their engines. From what has been posted on forums over the years about Coleman fuel is that it is very low octane, if I remember correctly it's about 65 octane. If your engine has a higher compression then it's possible that this is causing the difference in running.
On most of the hit and miss engines I have built I set the pushrod clearance to adjust the timing of the exhaust valve. By that I mean you can set your cam close to where it should be and then fine tune it with by adjusting the clearance. All of these engines have quite a bit of gap between the pushrod and rocker arm, not like a regular engine that only has .006-.010.
gbritnell
 

BrianThomas

Registered
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

The coil used is one I built using the plans from the engine and modifying the design just a bit. But all the same parts are present. I have a condenser grounded body and then connected to the top points plate. The coil throws a good spark. But how do I remedy the arcing on the timer contacts?
I am going to change back to gas and try some race gas to disrupt the smell a bit cause race gas smells very nice.
 

bitsnpieces1

Registered
Last Subscription Date
12/12/2012
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

I'd say try reducing the power from the buzz box. The arcing probably is burning the points. More arcing = more burning. Hopefully you could reduce the power without messing up the running. Les
 

Jamesk815

In Memory Of
Last Subscription Date
09/29/2017
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

I Have been running colemans for 30 years, Some of my models
have litterly hundreds of hours with no loss in compression or
other problems.
Mix 6oz. of W-D40 with 1gal. of colemans and it works great,
even smells good.
jamesk815
 

Ken K

Registered
Last Subscription Date
03/03/2017
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

I built a Red Wing, years ago, and had the problem with the point getting oily, stopping the engine.
This the cure I used:
There is a web site called 5bears.com that has a transistor base system that make the points just a switch, with the transistor taking the amp. load of the coil. Has two parts, NTE 2329 transistor, and 40ohm 5 watt resistor, Cost abot $8.
The engine never stopped for a point problem again. If the engine stops with points close, you can burn up the transistor
Ken K
 

BrianThomas

Registered
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

Well I fiddled with it for the entire evening and adjusted the cam on the gear a few degrees and advanced the timer a couple teeth to make the engine run with the timming lever at 12 o clock instead of crowding the grease cup. It better but still temperamental. I made a new video of it and more detail in this one. I plan to add a picture thread showing the build as soon as I get my computer back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc-urP6AFGQ
 

Manorfarmdenton

Registered
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

Congratulations, it looks good! Its differs from mine (albeit a watercooled one) in hitting more than once at a time, but that may well be because it isnt fully freed up yet? The contact ring on mine is constantly oily and looks quite mucky but it doesnt seem to make any diufference to the spark. I use a bought-in buzz coil and a 12v rechargeable battery but have wondered about trying 6v input to reduce sparking at the contact, which is visible all the time its running. I have never had to clean the contacts though.

I have got the latch-out stop set as close to the cam end of the pushrod as possible while still letting the latch-out bar work, and the rocker clearance is minimal - just so you can feel movement there.

Mine runs equally well on either unleaded petrol or Coleman fuel, in both cases mixed with WD40. The Coleman fuel smells a lot nicer!

Keep us posted on progress! John.

---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:56 PM ----------

I just watched your 2nd vid, and its sounding good! I'm sure the speed is a lot more constant than mine and I wonder why? I have fiddled with flyweight springs etc, but mine hits, the weights fling way out and it coasts down a lot before it hits again, so the revs fluctuate wildly. If I load it I have to bring it way down before it hits constantly - which it then does very evenly.
 

Elden DuRand

In Memory Of
Age
78
Last Subscription Date
12/22/2017
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

John:

Nice job on building your engine! I may do one some day from a kit.

I think the best liquid fuel for models and any other low compression engines is naphtha, otherwise known as "Coleman Fuel" or "Camp Fuel". It has a nice, low octane, doesn't leave crud in the fuel system and the exhaust smell is not unpleasant.

Personally, I don't use any additive in the naphtha fuel but have, in the past, used Marvel Mystery Oil.

I agree that, after your engine loosens-up, it will run better. Also, go for as much spark advance as the engine is happy with. This will make it run cooler and make the most power per stroke.

Ignition on small engines is more critical so be sure your timer is working correctly and that the ignition and valve timing don't have any "jitter" in them.

Also, I've found that even small engines seem to like modern synthetic multi-grade oils. I run 5W30 synthetic in mine and, except for the exhaust smell, I can tell no difference.

The grease I use for the bearings is a Teflon-filled product that, even while of a thin consistency, stays in the bearings well. My guess is that the Teflon sort of clings to the bearing surfaces. Less drag, too.

Good luck!

Take care - Elden:wave:
http://www.eldensengines.com

Good luck!
 

BrianThomas

Registered
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

After another afternoon of tinkering with the engine, it's getting better. I used some 1000 grit lapping grease and lapped the piston and rings to the cyl and that made a lot of difference. Cleaned the grease out after some time turning with a drill.

Sitting here watching it run and she's getting warm and sounding better and better. I made a better "scaled" pair of skids and will fit and finish them so they match the ignition box. The gratification of bringing one of these to life is very nice. Been waiting 20 years to have all the tools to do this. I tried once in 1993 in my machine shop class the build a little brother. I failed badly but learned a lot and have a neat desk toy. Having tools at home to do this work is much better and as with time my skills have increased greatly. Need a beer now and watch the engine.
 

Manorfarmdenton

Registered
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

Sounds good Brian! A note on the ignition box - the original had it mounted on the skids at the head end, the engine being right at the other end of the skids. I have a 1912ish photo of one. Amanco mostly had them at that end too, probably to keep them out of the way of driving belts? John.
 

BrianThomas

Registered
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

John I've seen the pictures too and cant decide on what way I like the best? I will play with the front mounting position and go from there.
 

Manorfarmdenton

Registered
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

I dont think it matters too much Brian - they probably got altered about a lot during a working lifetime!
 
E

Edwin

Guest
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

Brian,looking good,i hope to have my air cooled running again soon.The crank was a 5 peice i made but it losened at the one of the joints,so i made another one that was one peive this time but it didnt work out 100% so im going to make another 5 peice with a bit more thought this time.These red wings seem to run a little fast i tried to slow mine down,but feel i may be able to get it to slow down some more.Just wanted to give you the thumbs up on the build.
 

BrianThomas

Registered
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

Edwin, do tell your secret for slowing these down some. I can't keep mine running at slower speeds?
 

Paul Spence

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
01/02/2020
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

My Redwing is run only on a Coleman/WD-40 mix as are all of my models :shrug: (smell is nice) . I have fussed with the ignition and valve timing and have it running very smoothly, and never have had an ignition/pick up issue with mine. I added a spark saver so it only fires on the power stroke. Here is a photo of it on a scale Redwing set of trucks :) I made for it from a Redwing advertizment I had. They are nice running models :uhoh: . Sorry, no video of it running.

 

BrianThomas

Registered
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

Paul, I must say that is an amazing display! I know you and others have said run a mix fuel but my question is why? I'm going to pick some oil up after work as I have used enough fuel to make room for some WD40.
 

Manorfarmdenton

Registered
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

Paul, on the first or second run with my Red Wing using straight Coleman and oil in the drip oiler the piston dried out. It started to make a squeaking sound and the compression began to blow past the rings - you could hear it. I grabbed a can of spray oil and squirted the underside of the piston and everything went back to normal. I mentioned it to a friend and they recommended 10% WD40, and I have used it ever since. I have never had a recurrence of the drying out, even when I have let the oiler run out without noticing. John.
 
E

Edwin

Guest
Re: Fired my air cooled red wing.

Brian,i dont have any gov.springs on the engine when mine is running in the video,i also dont have a spring on the detent/latch out.I only have one rubber elastic on the governor weights,thats about the slowest i can run it.You may want to back off the springs on the governor maybe as loose as you can make then and see howe it runs.I have seen full size engines runs amazingly slow with out the gov. weight springs removed.Hope this helps a bit.Good luck with it,im sure you will have it running as slow or fast as you want in no time.
 
Top