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Genie S60 Platform Rotator Rebuild

dalmatiangirl61

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Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
The platform rotator on my S60 boomlift quit working a few weeks ago, it was working fine until it was moved to extreme left position, then quit working and was purging oil from lower seal. I have Genie manual, but it just shows how to remove entire unit, no info on the internal workings, or how to rebuild. I was able to order a rebuild kit from Genie using the online service and by entering S# of machine to select proper kit. Calls to Genie have been fruitless, if you are not a dealer they just tell you to contact a dealer. Dealer plays dumb and says he cannot identify what I have by machine S#, I need to remove entire unit and bring it to them, they will rebuild it at an astronomical price.

Pretty sure Genie did not build these, it is someone else part, but neither mfr or dealer will say who built it. I found rebuild manuals from several different mfrs online, but they are all so similar, from an exterior perspective, yet have different disassembly procedures.

So has anyone out there ever rebuilt one of these? Know where Genie sourced them? Have a manual? Words of wisdom?

The part in question is in middle of pic.
 

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dalmatiangirl61

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Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
So I have had the rebuild kit for this thing for over 30 days, and with no direction on how to take it apart, well, I've been procrastinating....

Nice weather today, and its not going to last much longer, so I decided to try to get it apart. There were 2 allen head screws on top, 4 on bottom, those are now out. In pics 2 and 3 you can see pins in the hole next to the screw, right on the part line between 2 components. I'm pretty sure those need to come out next, I've cleaned edges with a dental pick, jabbed at them with a screwdriver, tickled them with a strong magnet, I see no movement. Manuals for similar type units show these types of pins having an internal thread, 10-32 iirc, but these just have a dimple in center, new pins in rebuild kit have the same dimple. Short of drilling and tapping (maybe just drilling would do it?) , anyone have suggestions on getting those pins out?

I did spot a painted over tag, only info I can get is P#30669, google search for "genie P#30669" took me to same company website that I ordered the parts from. But part# and price are different than what I ordered based on their drop down menu based on M# and S# of my machine, so I'm not sure if I have the right kit:shrug:
 

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dalmatiangirl61

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Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
First pic is replacement pin with dimple in one end, it is a steel pin.

Info on other units usually involves unscrewing bottom section with a spanner wrench, but there are no spanner pin holes, just the chamfered screwholes and if you used those you would probably buggar the threads. Looking in parts bag there were also these 2 steel pins and bolts, and it occurred to me that these could be used in the screwholes instead of a spanner wrench, see pics 2 and 3.

I'm completely spitballing this one, maybe those tapered pins and bolts go inside, I just don't know, but the little pins have to come out, somehow:shrug:
 

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dalmatiangirl61

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Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
I have looked at the Helac rotary actuators, and the rebuild manuals are in downloadable pdf form, I'll look at a few more tonight, have not found an exact match yet.

On the Helac units, those pins would have an internal thread, screw a bolt in and yank it out. I can not imagine why a mfr would expect the end user to have to drill and tap the pin to get it out.

Edit: Ok, think I found the right one, I'll be damned, they do expect you to drill the pin, then use a bolt extractor to get it out.
https://www.helac.com/uploads/file/actuators/service-repair/HY34-1120_L20_Manual_English_11302017.pdf
 

dalmatiangirl61

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Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Just think, some engineer made the decision that the little pins needed a dimple in them so they would be easier to drill, when he could have just spec'd a 1/8" hole:bonk:
 

cornbinder89

Registered
I've been watching this but haven't responded, because my experience was with JLG's. They too cheapened out (their rotator is of a different type) but when I was working for a dealer I got engineering to add three puller bolt holes in theirs.
They said it wasn't necessary as the part was a slip fit, which it was when built, but it was keyed to the shaft and the key would break and jam the two parts together. Once that happened the only hope was three bolts and a puller head to separate.
Those pins look like a "shear fuse" designed to yield and protect the system if it is jammed.
At least you figured out how to get them out.

---------- Post added at 01:28:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10:20 PM ----------

I don't know if Genie is any better or worse than the other brands, but it seamed JLG used the "come here and hold this while I weld it" school of mfg. None of the pins had puller holes, and the fabricated parts all hand eccentric bushing to make up for holes that weren't reamed, but made before the part was complete.
 

dalmatiangirl61

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Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
I got the %^&*#%* pins out. Drilled them 1/8" and tried an easy-out, put enough rotational force on it that any more and it was going to snap. Drilled them 3/16" and tried a larger easy-out, this time a square one, it was a painful 20 minutes turning counterclockwise only, and only pulling while turning, but it came out. The next one was even worse, wallered out the hole enough with the square easy-out that I could use the next size larger twisty kind. Want a lesson in futility, put a tap wrench on an easy-out and see how hard you can pull before it slips off:rant:. Hour and a half, twisting and pulling but the %^%$% pins are out! Stupidest design I've ever seen:rant:
 

I like oldstuff

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Last Subscription Date
11/09/2015
Time for a cocktail as you won. Then look over your shoulder at it and give it the finger. It won't do anything but you'll have a satisfying feel better 'tude about it.:D
 

pegasuspinto

Registered
Normally you thread the hole you just drilled and then screw a nut onto a bolt, screw the bolt all the way into the pin, and then run the nut down to pull it. A lot more pull force, and if you DID manage to snap the bolt, you wouldn't need to drill out a stray bit of an EZ out.
 

dalmatiangirl61

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Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
I am down to the last 2 seals that need replacing on this unit and cannot get them on, spent 3 hours last night fighting the seal below with no luck, and achy fingers this morning . What got me the closest was using a tapered cone from the brake lathe, but it is a wee bit smaller diameter and I cannot get seal to slide from one surface to next evenly. My next step is going to be to bolt the tapered cone to the gland nut and try to slide it over. I have soaked seal in hot (boiling at 6000ft) water to soften it, but that does not help much. Trying to simply install by stretching it over is fruitless, if you get half on, the other half is across face of nut, and I cannot get it to stretch over. The seal has to go into lower groove as seen in second pic.

Is there an easier way to do this?
 

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tdmidget

Registered
I got the %^&*#%* pins out. Drilled them 1/8" and tried an easy-out, put enough rotational force on it that any more and it was going to snap. Drilled them 3/16" and tried a larger easy-out, this time a square one, it was a painful 20 minutes turning counterclockwise only, and only pulling while turning, but it came out. The next one was even worse, wallered out the hole enough with the square easy-out that I could use the next size larger twisty kind. Want a lesson in futility, put a tap wrench on an easy-out and see how hard you can pull before it slips off:rant:. Hour and a half, twisting and pulling but the %^%$% pins are out! Stupidest design I've ever seen:rant:
I agree. EZ outs are a stupid design. They are their own punishment. Why you would even considered one is beyond me. Drill hole, tap, pull with slide hammer. Drill hole tap, put in threaded rod, use nut to pull against a stack of washers or spacer. Think how much fun you'd be having if the EZ turd broke in there. Ain't nothing easy about them.
 

cornbinder89

Registered
Try getting your hands on some heavy plastic, like a cover of a notebook, wrap it around the gland nut and cone, lube it with rubber lube, and see if you can force the seal up and over the lands.
It would be nice to have a tube to press the seal. Good luck.
 

ronm

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Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
That's a toughie...you're almost going to have to have a cone that will get it up over the first shoulder & a sleeve like a split plastic one to get it past the second shoulder. Those seals are a pain, an old guy I worked with described things like that as "stretchin' a mosquito's ass over a Ferris Wheel"...
 

dalmatiangirl61

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Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Finally got the seals on, I have done a lot of tough seals, these were by far the most tenacious I have encountered. I have a name for these, lets just say it sounds almost like satan's condo. Pics below are what worked, no idea how you would do this without a smooth metal cone. I did first one without the split sleeve in place, it was easier on second with split sleeve. Second pic shows the old seal, easiest way to remove is pry enough up to cut with razor blade.

Edit: Not visible in second pic is piece of all-thread holding stackup together.
 

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dalmatiangirl61

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Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
I was really proud of myself for getting this thing back together last night, walked past an hour later admiring my work and noticed an "extra" part laying on the work bench, ARGHHHHHH, I already put the pins in:rant:. So todays job is drill and tap the pins, put the part in, make new pins. Maybe tomorrow I can get this machine working again:(
 

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dalmatiangirl61

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Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
I agree. EZ outs are a stupid design. They are their own punishment. Why you would even considered one is beyond me. Drill hole, tap, pull with slide hammer. Drill hole tap, put in threaded rod, use nut to pull against a stack of washers or spacer. Think how much fun you'd be having if the EZ turd broke in there. Ain't nothing easy about them.
Yeah, because getting a broken E-Z-out out is so much harder than getting a broken tap out:O.

Drilling and tapping seemed easier, initial drill/tap went fine, screwed a bolt in (10-24) with a sleeve for pin to come into and started cranking nut, it stripped. Decided to try slide hammer, but in checking thread engagement in pin found it was only going 3/4 of way thru so I decided to run a bottoming tap in to get full engagement, it snapped:rant:.

At this point I'm dead in the water, I could mill/drill with solid carbide, and there is now a mill here, but it is not wired in, and needs a repair too. If I understand manual, that ring is a rotation travel limiter and depending on application of rotator, not all have them. So I think I am safe in just installing as-is for now, just need to be mindful of not running basket into boom in one direction. I will wrap and label that part and put it inside control panel, when the tilt cylinder blows I'll be working in that area again.
 

WillieMcWrench

Registered
DalmationGirl61...does the S60 rotator have an inner gear between the top and bottom? If so, how did you align it rotate properly on assembly? Im stuck as Im not sure the order of assembly and mine is 90 degrees out from center. Any help would be appreciated, I know this is an old thread
 

dalmatiangirl61

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Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Hi Willie, yes there is an inner gear, mine had "timing" marks on all gears, getting the inner gear in, in correct timing took multiple tries. Look closely at all gears sections, there should be little punch marks on ends, they all have to match to punch on mating gear.
 
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