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Have NHMA shot themselves in the foot with the new tractor pull rules ?

ianoz

Registered
I read that all tractors must have standard exhausts ..To me the bellow of a super 70 or 90 is the drawcard for the crowd at the tractor pulls .
I can agree wholeheartedly with the wide tyres ban .
But then i read they want us to have extra insurance because most tractors are not registered . I thought that was what the NHMA insurance covered ,3rd party's at events .
 

cobbadog

Registered
Just another bit of B/S from that mob. Always take your money and give you nothing, want a take from a rally but do bugga all to help, don't bring and supply very much other than a brand name and want to keep secrets from members with being open with the books and voting.
Yep, my views on them hasn't swayed much.
 

karragullengine

Registered
How's the other mob getting on, i remember there was a big s fight on here a while back, all seems to have died down. But another group started their own insurance scheme, would be good to get an update on how they are traveling along and the level of support they have recieved along with some satisfaction feedback.
 

cobbadog

Registered
That was Rob.S who started that up and still advertise in the Oily Rag. I believe they have done well so far. Our Club has not changed their insurer but it is good to have a choice. No doubt Rob.S if he sees this will post some info for you.
 

Scotty 2

Registered
Hello Ian
The exhaust requirement may not be an issue with many participants but it seems as though the number of requirements, restrictions is constantly growing and may well restrict active participation. Will the exhaust thing be the straw that broke the camel's back?
I wonder why they require a standard exhaust? Doesn't make much sense to me.

I see on the NHMA website that they continually strive to promote and develop the historical machinery preservation and restoration movement within Australia. Nothing there about using or exhibiting. With the growing number of restrictions placed upon the tractor and steam people I wonder if NHMA is moving towards a display only group?
I just read the general guidelines and there seems to be more restrictions there as well. I can't be too sure as I haven't read it for a few years. I just didn't want to. Guards over gears and belts seem to be an item now.
3.1 DRIVEN EXHIBITS: The operation of all driven machinery is subject to the approval of the Club Safety Committee. All engines and driven exhibits shall be securely fastened to the ground or otherwise rendered incapable of movement. All vee section and flat belts and other drive shafts shall be in good condition and have adequate guarding or fencing where considered necessary by the Club Safety Officer/Committee.
Reading that it seems to me I should consider myself lucky to have an old engine driving a pump because of the exposed gears and belt. How do you securely secure an old engine and pump to the ground? I mean, even with pegs they do move.

What the hell is this? 3.15 CLOTHING AND FOOTWEAR: Appropriate footwear must be worn at all times. No open toed footwear is to be worn and clothing shall not be excessively loose. Safety boots and overalls are recommended. Thongs or open toed footwear are not allowed.
Overalls. They've got to be kidding. Last year at our NHMA rally it was 44 degrees in the shade, and they want us to wear overalls? Ain't going to happen bucko. Would they knock back a claim if overalls were not worn? It would be an easy escape goat. I'm pretty sure that that overalls bit wasn't there last time I read the guidelines. Bloody overalls......bugger me. Obviously who-ever made that recommendation has never worn them for long periods of time in the heat ie the real world. Maybe someone should remind the NHMA about OH&S heat and fatigue requirements now-a-days.

And then reading down the guidelines;
4.1 Tractors/vehicles outside fenced compounds are to be stationary – NOT TO BE MOVED. Says it all really.

https://www.nhma.com.au/downloads/NHMA General Safety G-Lines 31-07-19.pdf

I'm buggered if I know.
Cheers Scott
 

AussieIron

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
02/04/2020
Hello Ian
The exhaust requirement may not be an issue with many participants but it seems as though the number of requirements, restrictions is constantly growing and may well restrict active participation. Will the exhaust thing be the straw that broke the camel's back?
I wonder why they require a standard exhaust? Doesn't make much sense to me.

I see on the NHMA website that they continually strive to promote and develop the historical machinery preservation and restoration movement within Australia. Nothing there about using or exhibiting. With the growing number of restrictions placed upon the tractor and steam people I wonder if NHMA is moving towards a display only group?
I just read the general guidelines and there seems to be more restrictions there as well. I can't be too sure as I haven't read it for a few years. I just didn't want to. Guards over gears and belts seem to be an item now.
3.1 DRIVEN EXHIBITS: The operation of all driven machinery is subject to the approval of the Club Safety Committee. All engines and driven exhibits shall be securely fastened to the ground or otherwise rendered incapable of movement. All vee section and flat belts and other drive shafts shall be in good condition and have adequate guarding or fencing where considered necessary by the Club Safety Officer/Committee.
Reading that it seems to me I should consider myself lucky to have an old engine driving a pump because of the exposed gears and belt. How do you securely secure an old engine and pump to the ground? I mean, even with pegs they do move.

What the hell is this? 3.15 CLOTHING AND FOOTWEAR: Appropriate footwear must be worn at all times. No open toed footwear is to be worn and clothing shall not be excessively loose. Safety boots and overalls are recommended. Thongs or open toed footwear are not allowed.
Overalls. They've got to be kidding. Last year at our NHMA rally it was 44 degrees in the shade, and they want us to wear overalls? Ain't going to happen bucko. Would they knock back a claim if overalls were not worn? It would be an easy escape goat. I'm pretty sure that that overalls bit wasn't there last time I read the guidelines. Bloody overalls......bugger me. Obviously who-ever made that recommendation has never worn them for long periods of time in the heat ie the real world. Maybe someone should remind the NHMA about OH&S heat and fatigue requirements now-a-days.

And then reading down the guidelines;
4.1 Tractors/vehicles outside fenced compounds are to be stationary – NOT TO BE MOVED. Says it all really.

https://www.nhma.com.au/downloads/NHMA General Safety G-Lines 31-07-19.pdf

I'm buggered if I know.
Cheers Scott
It did only say overalls recommended, didn't say compulsory. If it was i wouldn't be going.
 

ianoz

Registered
Exhausts , simple Scotty workplace health and safety , exceeding the allowed decibel requirements for modern day whingers .
NHMA have decided that we with our old gear need to have said gear comply with year 2020 workplace health and safety regulations. I have a cAT d4-7u and a Cat D4-29a Both had straight pipes with no mufflers from new , so my tractors comply with the original exhausts , but will be knocked back because they are too noisy . If i put a muffler on it ,then is not original by their rules still can't have a pull .My D4-29A was delivered as a bulldozer with a blade so under the guidelines can't be used in tractor pull .
 

Tracy T

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/16/2019
" Club Safety Officer/Committee." Its been my experience when words like this enter the scene, things go down hill fast!
 

Scotty 2

Registered
It did only say overalls recommended, didn't say compulsory. If it was i wouldn't be going.
All to do with interpretations and definitions matey. I've been reading Australian Standards all my working life and there's not much difference between the 2 words when the poo hits the fan. Other words like shall leave me cringing too.

Can you still wear overalls in the workplace? I thought they were banned years ago.

Yep, getting to the stage Darryl. Some mates, a BBQ, a beer and give the engines a run at home. I'll have to find some mates, got the rest ready to go.

Cheers Scott
 

AussieIron

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
02/04/2020
All to do with interpretations and definitions matey. I've been reading Australian Standards all my working life and there's not much difference between the 2 words when the poo hits the fan. Other words like shall leave me cringing too.

Can you still wear overalls in the workplace? I thought they were banned years ago.

Yep, getting to the stage Darryl. Some mates, a BBQ, a beer and give the engines a run at home. I'll have to find some mates, got the rest ready to go.

Cheers Scott
Well, try welding all day without them. I worked 47 years in a tin shed in a boiler suit. So does everyone I know in a factory environment, unless you want to be burnt to a crisp. I don't see need to wear them at a rally at all, and I won't. Some do, good on them if they want. I agree, every one wants to tell you what to do nowdays, you would think that they would think before wording their guidelines like that. Just thinking, I don't sweat as much now that I'm retired, maybe that's why I'm putting on weight? ----Now where's those overalls? Cheers -Neil.
 

Norm Johnston

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
08/13/2019
When you are at a Vintage tractor pull and the cowboys with their GM powered tractors with straight out exhausts start pulling and you see the crowd leave the track fence covering their ears and taking their children away from the noise it makes sense to have the standard exhaust system fitted to these tractors. All the guidelines states is the tractors must have standard exhausts systems. there are noise issues here that worksafe are seriously looking at.
 

jayvee

Registered
I'm not saying that it is or it isn't, but I think the muffler situation may be related to noise pollution and possibly the EPA. :unsure:
Our club has had a run in with the "bureaucrats" re a noisy engine.
FYI "It's an old engine, it blows smoke and makes noise" is not a valid reason.

"All to do with interpretations and definitions"
If I may...
Having been in an industry for 35 years that has seen me in various (legal but mostly Coroner's) courts more than you've had hot dinners, this is what was "drummed" into me and what I passed on to the "newbies"

GUIDELINES;
Are not rules
They are not Law
They can not be enforced
You can not be charged for breaching them
They provide credible information for those who want to know what is a safe level and manner of operation.
(in simple English, they are a guide for the experienced and a safety net for the fools, i.e. If you don't know or you're not confident with what you're doing, following the guideline(s) will hopefully keep you out of trouble.

In amongst any guidelines the definitions of 3 words (Legal gobblededook, mumbo jumbo) needs to be understood;
May = an optional course of action. A choice to act or not, or a promise of a possibility
Must = A legal directive/requirement that must be complied with
Should = A recommended course of action. A direction but does not mean mandatory

Whether this info is of any benefit to you, I don't know, but I thought I'd put it out there

jayvee
 

john gilbert

Registered
Hi All, JV, good to hear from you, but did you miss one,? "duty of care", and Yes, Ianoz, there is always another Organisation your Club can join for a different Insurer, and at a lower price I believe. I think I will join Daryl and his club.
Cheers John
 

jayvee

Registered
Hi John,
Yes, there is a 'Duty of care. ' there is also 'Competent person' and the classic "Common Sense" that get a mention in numerous documents, but the 3 words mentioned (post #14) above seem to be the ones that most people come unstuck with understanding although "Common Sense" could probably be thrown into the argument.

jayvee
 

Dobbo56

Registered
Hi All
Oh well suppose the HAPPY POLICE had to get their fingers into everybodies fun!
As a newby to this pastime, and reading the comments in this post have dampened my enthusiasm in joining a club. I did look into joining a club in the Hunter area (as I live in Lake Macquarie), just after Steamfeast I attended a meeting of said club, after 3 hours of indecision, bickering and the all mighty politics, I decided not to get involved, plus the snided remarkes about me having as my first engine, a IHC 3hp M, guess they are not a kosher engine in this club.
Last year I attended Steamfeast (probably my last), Quirindi, Wauchope vintage truck show ( where I met Cobbadog) and the rusty iron rally Macksville, the last three of these rallies impressed me, the fellowship and politeness to talk to someone new into the pastime was very enlightening.
Oh well suppose I will start a club like Daryl's.
Enough rambling.
Cheers Dobbo
 

cobbadog

Registered
If going to Allora you have to be there firat before Scotty eats all the hot chips.

Our Club uses Oxley Insurance Brokers for their Public Liability as they offer the best terms for us to run our Rally. Every Club I would imagine will or does have their unique thing they like to do that makes it 'their' rally and there fore one insurance policy would find tricky to cover all the little changes so looking about for a 'custom' policy makes sense.
 

Engineman87

Registered
Do
Hi All
Oh well suppose the HAPPY POLICE had to get their fingers into everybodies fun!
As a newby to this pastime, and reading the comments in this post have dampened my enthusiasm in joining a club. I did look into joining a club in the Hunter area (as I live in Lake Macquarie), just after Steamfeast I attended a meeting of said club, after 3 hours of indecision, bickering and the all mighty politics, I decided not to get involved, plus the snided remarkes about me having as my first engine, a IHC 3hp M, guess they are not a kosher engine in this club.
Last year I attended Steamfeast (probably my last), Quirindi, Wauchope vintage truck show ( where I met Cobbadog) and the rusty iron rally Macksville, the last three of these rallies impressed me, the fellowship and politeness to talk to someone new into the pastime was very enlightening.
Oh well suppose I will start a club like Daryl's.
Enough rambling.
Cheers Dobbo
Dobbo, I live locally also and looked into joining a local club as to display some engines at steamfest. When discussing the club with some members I was asked what engines I had. The reaction to my preference of engine pretty much sealed the deal for me as in my choice not to join. I’ll do as Daryl does and start them all at home enjoying them to myself probably having a beer doing so. Cheers!
 
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