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Howard Auto Cultivators Rotary Hoe posters

rodneyt

Registered
Original Howard Posters wanted
4 years ago a Howard collector in Qld let me photograph a set of laminated photocopies of late 1930s Howard promotional posters, at the time he was reluctant to allow this, but he is in a high fire risk area, so agreed it will help preserve history. now its not so funny, a few houses only several kms from him were destroyed in the recent bushfires.

the posters are a set, all with identical wide decorative border, which appears to have been a cardboard frame as part of a mounting of a photo. most have a photo descriptive caption underneath, and a catchy sales slogan across top. dated by the machines shown, old model of Twelve puts them pre-war, Four-Wheel-Drive-22 puts them later than 1936 approx. it would be nice to have these available to display at shows etc, but as copies it would be unfair to whoever has originals to just do that, so I am asking whoever has the originals, please can you make some more and make them available to everybody somehow?

I have asked several Howard collectors if they have any, nobody I have spoken too has ever seen them before. 1 guy has a late 1930s HAC calendar, which has several old machines photos in it, but it does not have any of these photos, nor does it have a fancy border. it is possible these 'posters' are from a different year of HAC calendar, without having the originals, or talking to somebody who knows these pictures, I have no way of knowing what they were originally published as. here is an example, my profile pic is cut from what would seem to be either the first or the last in the set, my photograph of this poster did not get all the border, the border is even all the way around. this is the only one which is NOT a Howard product, for relevant history, read all about James Ruse elsewhere.

as a laminated photocopy, it must be a recent product, maybe only 30 years old? they are in very good condition, they seem less than 10 years old. they were given to the owner by a friend who found them as while looking through second-hand household items in a market type stall, they would have been merely part of a heap of stuff got from a garage sale. these are so well done, there ought to several other sets all over the place, but where are they?
cheers Rod.HACposter1-jamesruseplow-DSC04082-vga1.jpg
 

cobbadog

Registered
At least you have photos of what you are looking for and iif stuck between a rock and a hard place you can still make copies for yourself for display purposes.
 

RustyNumbat

Registered
I don't understand the whole "making copies devalues the original", especially when it comes to paper articles like these. Do the thousands of copies of The Pioneer that exist devalue the original in any way? If I get a 100 year old motor oil tin sign reprinted brand new could I expect to sell it for hundreds of dollars at an auction? In this day and age of 20 second home scanning scan stuff, stick it online for others to enjoy and use, and if you want to be really miserly about it then just upload it at a resolution that doesn't allow for 1:1 reprinting. Then it will (theoretically) never vanish because a shed burnt down or some old timer died and had his collection trashed.
 

rodneyt

Registered
the Howard Register people have been very helpful, but it is a case of a few people do know a lot and have a lot of info, but nobody knows everything. Meeting people and asking questions has found a lot of info, and some rare machines, but it has become a case of 'the more I know, the more I know how little I know' and there are a few loose ends I am wanting to tidy up.

having these posters is nice, the photos are ok, but you will notice my reflection with camera as a darker area inside the lighter area, the actual poster is as seen in the darker area, without the sky reflection off the plastic. to make good copies of these copies, they need to be photocopied. yes i am happy to be an 'offsite backup' and the pics are good enough to make fair reproductions from. yes the pic on here is something like a 20 percent of original photo, so shrunk to a fifth of resolution, but still good enough to see what it is.

Value is not the issue, nor is the ability to print my photos, its more about being courteous.
because these copies seem to be recent, somebody should still have the originals,
they did a good job with these copies, i dont want to steal their business,
and if all copies are of the originals, we all get a better product.

History is not merely a set of pictures, i also want to know what is the story that goes with them, if any.
what other info and stories does the current caretaker of these posters have ?...

cheers Rod.
 

cobbadog

Registered
Well you are doing the best and more than is needed to put it out there what it is you are after and then maybe do a reprint at an average quality and not trying to pass it off as anything else other than a copy. What you are experiencing with all your research is what another person I know has been trying to do for a very very long time and that is the History of Victa Mowers. He has even been in contact personally with a bloke who left Victa to manage Pace andwith a few face to face meetings and with all the feed back from members that either worked at Victa or ran a mower shop they still cannot put each of the models into the correct order as for something as simple as engine numbers. When did Model 1 become Model 2? What were the differences exactly as there was a period where they mixed parts to run out the old seris parts before using the new. It is highly unlikely that exact and accurate details will ever be found and confirmed so it is only used as a general description and a 'rough' guide as to what we have.Good on you for doing what your doing and hopfully you can achieve your outcome.
 

Scotty 2

Registered
Hello all
The clue for better images is in the picture itself. Technological Museum.
The Technological Museum of NSW had a name change to Museum of Technology and Applied Science in about 1946. In around 1950 the name was changed to Museum of Applied Arts and Sciences.
So if nothing else, the picture can be dated to be before 1946.
Cheers Scott
 

rodneyt

Registered
hi all, all good.

re fb, alas if I am not here I am often there, but the more time I spend there, the more I prefer to be here:
a proper forum is far better place to put relevant info together so it can be found again.
as a case in point, to suggest i need to be there, shows that either you are not,
or reveals you have not been wasting your time,
going thru the all the replies to replies ad-nauseam where my 2 cents worth is often to be found.
in this here OP i mention 'my profile pic' which i forgot to edit out,
most of OP is cut and paste from same post on fb in at least one of the 3 other fb Howard groups i also joined.

Thanks for info re date for Ruse Plough pic, which helps confirm the pre-war dates guess for the Howard pics.
my guess of 'pre-war' (being WW2), can be extended up to 1942, as that is an advertised year of ceasing rotary hoe production until 1944.
the model 12 seems to have not been put back into production until 1946, when the 'New Patent Twelve' started production.
more of these sort of details will be in Tony Pettitt's book about oz walkbehinds, now in the queue at the printers,
hopefully it will be in the bookshops within 2 or 3 months.

here is 1942 quote from newspaper via Trove, sorry i forgot to include page number in reference:
HOWARD ROTARY HOES "... At present we are fully employed in important urgent projects and have had to
temporarily cease making the ROTARY HOE. ...."
[The Argus, Melbourne Victoria, Saturday 16 May 1942]

I have a couple of Victa Paces, Tecumseh powered, they work well,
and found a replacement Villiers Torquemaster for a friend with an actual Pace mower in need of tlc.
more good Aussie history and business skullduggery, very pleased to hear about some serious research about Victa history.

Losing details of history is quite normal, and in the context of 'the big picture' is easily ignored as not important,
a bit like having a great old engine, its only missing a couple of bits here and there, but it is still a great old engine...???

yes, now is good time to start throwing rotten tomatoes...

One of the things which I regret is that I did not ask more, and more serious questions sooner.
after a few years of simply collecting photos off the net, in 2011 I began compiling my list of all things Howard,
and in 2013 was sent some very informative documents from Keith Beasley of Standens Engineering,
the UK keeper of the remnants of the old factory records,
some were by Frank Moore, whose name is listed on the back of a lot of later Howard brochures as one of the directors.
Some of the machines he wrote about seem to have become totally historical and vanished.
Not until sometime in 2017 did I find this obituary, which is great info on his lawnmower,
(thanks for mentioning lawnmowers Cobbadog),

http://landpower.newsweaver.co.uk/servicedealer/1kzvqxma439?a=1&p=48311182&t=17711314

but also told me that, depending on his state of mind,
I missed out on 2 years opportunity to ask him questions that maybe only he could have answered.
A few months ago, Keith also died, he had been with Howards since around 1972, and was very helpful.
Thanks to these forums etc, I am meeting more people with old info, but not enough old people with info,
I am sure there are still plenty of people I haven't met with stories they haven't told.

2019 has been a great year for me, in spite of some serious dramas along the way,
looking forward to a very interesting new year,
best wishes for all in 2020, Rod.
 

cobbadog

Registered
With the owner/admin of vintagemowers.net he has a lot of detail on the Victa and Steve Coleman who managed Pace also wrote a history and posted it on the mower site as well. Although this site is now very quiet as most have gone over to using FaceAche and I wont and another mower site that can be clicky at times.
 
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