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kipor ignition fault

waterworks

Registered
Got a Kipor copy of a Honda EU 2000, with no spark, I've found the Green ignition power winding wire dissapears into the inverter board and there is no continuity on both end of this wire, anyone know why its going in there, because its not shown on the circuit diagram ?

Could I bypass this ? I don't want to blow the ignition module.



The manual says the ignition power winding is 27 volts, what kind of voltage should I get by pull starting, spinning the flywheel by hand gets me one volt ?





:salute:
 

Legacy

Registered
I take it you have a IG2000 ,if that's the case the green wire from
the ignition winding actually goes to the Ignitor module, that the unit
on the front panel with the 3 leds, My guess is you may have a bad
stop switch or low oil switch I am assuming you have checked for low oil,
and a bad spark plug all ready.

you should trouble shoot these first,if they test ok then you may have
a bad ignitor module,ignition coil,and possibly the inverter module

that's all i can think of, hope this helps.
 

debe

Registered
This is the circuit diagram of a Kippor generator, the ign module runs separate to the inverter module. Mine had a faulty Inverter but it didn't affect the running of the motor.
 

Attachments

Harlock

Registered
Check the low oil sensor, it is one of the most common problem. Make sure it is filled up completely. Then check the on/off switch. I've had 5 of these little units and I had problems with the low oil on 3 and problems with the on/off on 2 and 2 with the ignition coil.
 

Legacy

Registered
For anyone who ends up working on these inverter generators,
I have had the inverter boards fail in several ways, this will cause
different symptoms.
Most common is the loss of AC output but engine will still run.
The board also supplies such things as the low voltage to the ign
module,control for the stepper motor and the throttle (economy) switch.

I have had such things as the stepper motor lock on full speed because
the inverter failed resulting in a blown motor,loss of economy function repaired after module replacement,the list goes on.
So unfortunately the inverter can sometimes be the cause of more than
just loss of AC output.

Hope this help a few people.
 

chris.oates

Registered
Debe,

In all my searching you seem the most clued up on these Chinese copy inverter generator and your oscilloscope tracings have been very helpful. I see you have recently posted on other threads so may still be around and perhaps could help me troubleshoot a non-sparking ignition system.
The short version is I have one unit that doesn’t spark, I have years of experience of amateur petrol engine fettling and basic automotive and general electronics but this one has me beat. My specific questions are, should I multiply your oscilloscope voltages by 10 to get the actual voltages and have you developed a way of simulating the generated AC supply to the ignition unit to enable a bench test?

The longer but still not full version. My brother gave me a SDMO iNEO 1000 suitcase inverter generator to fix, it appears the same as the Kippor branded ones. It had a sump filled with petrol and oil which was flooding the plug. I drained this, refilled with oil and all seemed fine and returned it but it came back with the same and during experimentation suddenly stopped sparking. After testing and trying a replacement trigger coil I decided it was the ignition module and put it on the pending pile. Later I came across a running SDMO iNEO 2000 that didn’t generate so I bought it for spares and it joined the 1000 on the pending pile. With UK lockdown a lot of these pending projects have been resurrected, I think the petrol contaminated sump oil was due to a hole in the pulse pump diaphragm, and so swapped with the spares one, and my ignition module diagnosis seemed correct as swapping them produced a running iNEO 1000. Being curious I unpicked the epoxy from the duff ignition module and found a damaged MOSFET (IRF740) which I replaced and both ignition units work in the iNEO1000 but bizarrely the iNEO2000 which was running now won’t spark. Initially the spark was intermittent but now non-existent. You would think this would be easy, one sparking, one not sparking, just swap bits around to isolate the fault but as they are different sizes I can’t swap the stator/flywheel, and I’m reluctant to dismantle a fully working one again as these compact machines are tightly assembled with lots of wires to misroute. On the bench I set up a rotating iron bar to test reluctor triggers. I have a Chinese motorbike AC CDI unit powered by 2 mains AC transformers back to back 230-24-24-120V. I can use the iNEO 2000 generator trigger to spark the generator coil and plug through the motorbike AC CDI unit. This setup doesn’t work with the generator ignition unit and more surprisingly it doesn’t destroy it. It still works with the running engine. As I think I have fault tested the ignition unit (it works on the other engine), the trigger coil and ignition coil/plug I turned my attention to the ignition AC generator winding. The DC resistance measured within spec but the AC voltage seems low. Using a direct voltage adaptor on my multimeter to make a peak reading voltmeter, turning the engine over with a cordless drill only gives about 3v. I see you give 5v in the specs but the other engine when running measures about 30v and when tested on the pull cord with the trigger grounded gets to at least 7v, I have seen 10v mentioned elsewhere but cannot recall where. Most of the other AC CDI discussions and experimental circuits I have seen seem to provide the CDI with about 100v AC. Completely different to what these generator modules need, and also the capacitor is 2200uF 50v compared the usual 1-2uF 400v in “normal” CDI units. I have not yet found a schematic for these ignition units, perhaps I should draw one out, but there are lots of transistors, perhaps related to an ignition advance function or an oil level warning delay. The ignition unit seems to function totally separately from the inverter unit apart from containing 2 indicator leds which connect to the inverter but I would be interested if anyone thinks different, I wondered what the purpose of the stator subwinding was? Back to my investigation of the perhaps too low ignition supply voltage. The winding looked fine, I rewound it both using the original wire and then some new wire, made no difference to the measured voltage. Is it possible for the stator generator coils or the permanent magnets to depolarize or get polarity misaligned? I have read about field coil flashing but that seems inappropriate for a permanent magnet generator. The magnets subjectively seem very strong still and I haven’t handled them roughly, I used a puller to get the flywheel off but that was only after the no spark started. I have endlessly checked connecting wires and plugs for continuity and resistances, I have disconnected the oil level switch and ignition switch earthing wires. If any of you have got this far you may be wondering why I want to get an engine that I bought for spares running when I know the inverter is faulty, but that’s the next challenge, all thoughts welcome.

Chris
 

debe

Registered
All the CRO wave forms are X10. I have dismantled the ign module & started to draw out the ign circuit. Its not CDI, it a 12V switching circuit. Heres a few pictures of my testing of a module, I used some old reluctor car distributor parts on a small 12V electric motor to simulate pulses. I used a mains voltage step down transformer for my 12V AC supply. Seems to work ok.(will think a bit more about your post as iv only just found it) The Stator Sub winding is a 12V AC feed to the inverter to power the internal electronics.KIPOR IGN TEST circuit..jpgMOTOR DRIVE RELUCTOR..JPGPCB   KIPOR IGN.JPGTEST SETUP. 3.JPG
 
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chris.oates

Registered
Debe,
Many thanks, all useful stuff.
I cannot access my project at present but you have given me plenty to think about.
Your sketch of the wiring colours is the same as mine but my pcb is different to yours, which is disappointing as mine includes an 8 pin smd that I have yet to identify, and probably more semiconductors.
I'm envious of your bench setup, I think I will build an ac test supply similar to yours, thanks for confirming the voltage and current I'm aiming for, my lash up of a reluctor pulse generator is similar to yours but uses an old pc case fan, not as neat.
I'm going to read up on 12v switching circuits.
Thanks again,
Chris
eta Editing to correct my statement about wire colours, the pin positions are the same on my unit but the ac power wire on pin 5 is red and the trigger wire on pin 3 is white, just in case in future someone else uses this as a reference.
 
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