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Kohler 10M61H3 genset (1948) question

Grand1530

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Hello everyone: I am totally new to this and any forum so I hope you will bear with me during the learning curve. I am presently working on replacing the rear crankshaft seal on our original Kohler of Kohler 10M61H3 genset s/n 100948. It is a 1948? model 10KW 10KVa 115/230 44 amps/terminal 1 phase 60cycle 1200 RPM genset in incredible condition despite the extensive hours it would have on it(is an ex "early warning defence system" genset). Motor is a Waukesha FC.140E 3.25X4 gas s/n 625900 4411 running at 1200 RPM. I am unable to separate engine from generator body so I can replace rear crank seal on engine. The operator manual I have has a partial parts listing but is somewhat incomplete in the area where the generator shaft attaches to the armature. Could be some corrosion but unit has been inside a dry location its entire life. We removed 6 bolts from a hub behind cooling fan that I thought might be attached to generator shaft and the four bolts that attach end plate onto generator body but unit will not separate more than give in crankshaft and armature bearings.. Any advice or info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Brent
 

Mike Cushway

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Brent,
That was ages ago. If I remember correctly, the fan has the timing marks and needs to go back on in the correct position. Double check by locating #1 piston on tdc for firing before removal. I bought one of these plants one time and gave myself fits by trying to start it using the timing marks to set the magneto. The fan had been reinstalled incorrectly at some point in its life and was not phased correctly. Shoot pics of the plant when you get a chance. I always enjoy seeing them! MikeC
 

Grand1530

Registered
Hi Mike: thanks for responding to my post. In the little amount of time I have been on this forum, I have seen your input many times so was hoping to connect with you. I have tried to upload three pictures of our genset so hope I have been successful. Have not been successful in finding your Kohler Dissassembly thread yet but will keep trying. Regards Brent
 

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Horse Power at 511

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Last Subscription Date
10/02/2016
You will need to slide the field / stator off over the armature at least partially. You will then find that the armature flange bolts onto the end of the crank with four hex head bolts. I forget what size the hex is, maby 5/8 or 11/16. As I recall it is a bit of a pain to get a wrench on those bolts.
Very nice looking set by the way!
 

Grand1530

Registered
Wow, Thankyou very much for that insight! i hadn't even thought of trying to undo the bolts that attach the generator shaft to the crankshaft- I was working on the other end of the generator shaft. I'm going to go in with a bore scope here shortly and get a visual on how it is put together then we can see how to proceed. The Kohler works beautifully just slobbers oil out of PTO end crank seal so I don't want to break any good parts that can't be found . :)
 

Mike Cushway

Registered
Regardless of how you approach it, be careful that once the generator end bearing is loose of its housing, you dont drag the armature across the field poles. There is very little clearance between the two. Pull all the brushes out of the brushholders including the slip ring brushes so you dont damage anything. Sling the engine well as it will fall after you remove the 4 flange bolts. I would seriously consider new main bearings at this stage of disassembly.
 

Grand1530

Registered
Well, I'm certainly sold on the power of a forum such as this one! 35 hours after joining my first forum and with the the feedback from jackO and Horse Power at 511 and Mike Cushway we have the engine separated from the generator without any damage. Removed all brushes from slip rings and welded a 1" NF nut on the end of a piece of 1.5" shaft . Screwed this onto armature shaft after removing bearing retainer nut and supported shaft on a roller stand. Lifted engine weight with an engine leveler on a motor hoist and apart it came gently. I have picture of the apparatus and procedure but couldn't figure out how to make room on the system to post the three pictures. Thanks again for the help. Regards Brent
 

Zephyr7

Registered
You can protect the edges of the poles when pulling out the armature by sliding a piece of durable plastic (UHMW polyethylene for larger gaps, kapton for smaller gaps) in the gap prior to removal. With the plastic in place, any unexpected sideways wiggling just scuffs the plastic instead of potentially damaging anything important.

Bill
 

Grand1530

Registered
Have another question on our 1944(turns out it isn't a 1948) Kohler 10M61H3 generator that I'm hoping someone might have some insight into. While degreasing unit in preparation for reassembly after replacing rear engine crank seal I noticed that one of the two wires on one of the condensors at bearing end of generator was not connected to anything. Prior to teardown, unit generated just fine(voltage buildup button has never worked for us but I found a loose wire on push button switch and switch contacts were very dirty so hope I have rectified that). The RH condensor(looking towards engine) is connected to two brushes on the DC slipring. The condensor on the bottom is connected to brush on Line1 AC slipring and neutraul AC slipring. The third condensor(LH one) has 1 wire connected to Line2 AC slipring and the second wire is just hanging. The hanging wire has enough length to reach a) another brush on Line2 AC slipring or b) a brush contacting the Line 1 AC slipring(makes most sense to me?) or c) a brush on the DC slipring. Any insight would certainly be appreciated. Thanks ,Brent
 

Horse Power at 511

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Last Subscription Date
10/02/2016
I have a feeling that those condensers are across the output lines for a bit of AC filtering. They helped with radio interference back in the day when these units were built as I understand . I have had more than one of them “pop” on me after firing up one of these old units after years of sitting idle. At this point I just disconnect them and leave them out of the circuit. Should not effect the operation of the gen overall. If you wanted to keep the unit as close to original as possible I would suggest just replacing them all now, the ratings should be printed on the body of the condenser.
The dangling wire may go to the neutral slip-ring. I can check the schematic for my 10E62 this afternoon, should be the same.
 

Zephyr7

Registered
Those are likely capacitors (condensors) for AC line filtering. They helped to filter out electrical noise caused by small arcs in the brushes. I like to keep them there to limit RFI, but the unit will work without them.

You would want a capacitor (cap) between each line and neutral normally, but you could also go across the lines. I’d try to have one between line1 and neutral, the the other between line2 and neutral.

If the caps are bad, you can replace them with an AC rated axial film cap in the 0.1uF range. M

Bill
 

Grand1530

Registered
Thanks again to: Horse Power at 511 and Zepher7 for your assistance in identifying the purpose of the condensors and likely location for the non connected condensor wire! Just waiting on one more seal and speedi sleeve ( replaced original felt seals on crankshaft with a "C/R" type spring lip seal and speedi sleeve) and then can put unit back together and start generating stand by electricity. Regards Brent
 
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