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Lincoln Wire Feed 130

circuitman

Registered
got a question about the above can't weld even 1/4" steel with it just sputters, as amatter of fact can't burn a hole in thin sheet metal.when it's wide open. changed wire feed speed & everything i can think of. btw this is using gas with solid wire. any ideas or greatly appreciated!
 

FWurth

One Millionth Post
Last Subscription Date
07/29/2019
I got one with the same problem, Was thinking about taking it to the local supplier and see if they can sort it out. They have a repair service. Darn disappointing, spent good money for it and haven't been able to get any use rom it. Ideals? Mine isn't set up for gas, and we have the flux core wire. I bought the gas attachment for it but if it can't lay a steady arc why waste the effort.
 

circuitman

Registered
i agree, i checked with our local airgas supplier .they wanted $300 up front just to ship if not more, as a matter of fact i have two of these ! someone on here will see this and be able to help i know, great group here !
 

FWurth

One Millionth Post
Last Subscription Date
07/29/2019
That's what I worried about, so I've simply been of the opinion that it's cheape4r to get a different unit. Maybe some one might have the answer on here.
 

dalmatiangirl61

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Have either one of you opened your machines up to investigate? I worked on a Hobart similar size machine last year, pretty simple guts, unless yours has a circuit board. WAG is either you have bad diodes, or a bad capacitor, or a bad board if its newer.

Link to my thread, looks like I forgot to update it, machine is now working
https://www.smokstak.com/forum/threads/hobart-handler-120-welder-no-arc.188780/

You can pretty much forget dealer repair if out of warranty, that is how I got the Hobart, owner paid $75 for a diagnosis of a $250 repair for replacing diodes.
 
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cobbadog

Registered
With my el cheapo MIG I ran it gasless at first and the results at that stage were not that good then I found a way that was economical enough to be able to run it on gas and there was a greta improvement straight away. Now the trageic part is that I am not a welder on a bad day and the more I use it the better it gets. I am now improving all the time and even might reverse the polarity again and run gasless to see if it was really just me or ?????
 

zuhnc

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
I have a MAC Tools (built by Miller) welder (250 amp) that exhibited the same symptoms. Turned out it was the main filter capacitor that bit the dust. About $60.00 for that one item, about 25 years ago, IIRC. Corrected the issue. Have had that unit for about 35 years now, operates as good as new, still. zuhnc
 

circuitman

Registered
thanks for the replies! i was leaning towards that, they can cause a lot of trouble.just gotta tear into them. will let you know what i find. either the cap or diodes!
 

OnanParts

Sponsor
Last Subscription Date
06/20/2020
A long shot but, I was given a Millermatic 130 years ago. Just barely out of warranty and local shop told the original owner $350 to fix it. Yup, won't weld worth a dam.... sat around in a corner for years until one day....hmmm... that ground clamp connection looks a little iffy. Snugged up the cable to clamp bolt...bam! welds nice and hot now. :) Sometimes it's just the little things.
 

DKamp

Registered
Usually when these little boxes go south, the first thing I do, is disconnect each of the main rectifiers, and put a diode tester on 'em. IF they test out anything less than 100% spectacular, I replace them... go to higher forward current (If) and higher Peak Reverse Voltage (PRV). I also replace the snubber capacitors (they're most often located very close to, and frequently ON the capacitor), go to a higher voltage, with same value.

What happens, is that the snubbers break down from high RF noise generated by the welding process. They fatigue, and eventually fail open, which subjects the rectifier junctions to high voltage RF, killing the diode... shorting it open, or closed.

Don't replace only the bad diode... replace all (usually pairs of 2, 4, or 6), and ALL the snubber capacitors. Go higher voltage ratings, and you'll have a tougher machine.
 

circuitman

Registered
well no diodes per say. they were inverter type. they were a transistor with three wires. there were 4 of them.they were on a aluminum heat sink tried changing polarity on the gun. sound like they shorted when you pulled the trigger.so i put them back the way they were.had good fdc voltage, about 36 volts. could the cap still be the culprit?
 

DKamp

Registered
Inverters need snubber caps too, but a failure of a snubber cap really only does two things- first, is that it causes an increase of RF noise on the output, and second, it subjects that noise against the junctions of the semiconductor.

In the first circumstance, that RF noise COULD 'come back in' through the inverter's output feedback control (it's gotta see it's output, in order to control itself, right?)

In the second circumstance, a much more simple situation, is that RF noise rampant on any of the output-side junctions, results in a potential difference between those junctions, and the input side. In the case of say... a typical transistor, any noise that's bangin' on the collector or emitter, means the base-collector or base-emitter voltage is changing... which means the output ratio is going to TRY to change. In hollow-state technology, you'd have a cathode, control grid, and anode... any noise that hits the cathode or anode changes the relationship of grid-to-anode or grid-to-plate, means you have a commensurate change in plate current. If you're familiar with high-power RF amplifiers, you'll recognize grounded-grid design as being a prime example of how effective such a circumstance could be.

An inverter is just a pair or quartet (or in the case of a 3ph inverter, six) of semiconductors being triggered in a proper sequence. They're not running in Class A... they're just switching... banging on and off. The output circuit is ALWAYS reactive in some sort, so there WILL be oscillation (switching noise) from the semiconductors banging open and slamming shut... so snubbers are mandatory.

I'll apologize here- I made the (ass)umption that your machine was a simple transformer machine, as many of the portable squirtguns are. I've fixed many small units, and the most frequent culprit is roasted diodes and snubbers, mostly because they're so easily run beyond their duty cycle... they get overheated, which fatigues and kills diodes and snubbers pretty quick.

In the case of your welder, though... if it really IS an inverter, and you just get sputter... it sounds like either you've got a bad connection, or the inverter's internal feedback signal is not good.

As others suggested, the very FIRST thing, is to go after cables and connections. Do NOT predispose yourself to assuming that any cable or connection is good, because welding circuits are EXTREMELY sensitive to ANY resistance... and to really compound the challenge, welding cables are huge bundles of extremely fine strands which just LOVE to demonstrate their capacity for capillary action... it very well may have drawn moisture up into that wire a few feet, and left you with a perfectly-good-looking cable that has a foot section of green powder in the middle. If you bend it, and it feels a little 'crunchy', it's bad. If you dead-short the output for a few seconds, then shut it down, and feel from the ground clamp, all the way to the machine's internal busbars, and feel ANY warm spot, dismantle, investigate, clean, and reassemble.

And DON"T dismiss the liner and it's connections, or the wire as a source of problem. That liner transmits the OTHER half of the welding circuit- there's a hefty connection point between the supply's output, through the feeder, to the whip... if there's any lameness there, it WILL result in flaccid output. I've also had a sputter-weld situations that fought me right-and-left 'till I pulled out the spool, grabbed a new spool, and fed it in. The spool somehow got contaminated such that it would NOT pass current from the liner to the wire. <shrug>. I could easily blame it on cheap wire, because I've found cheap wire to be a common theme when this happens, but I've had expensive wire do it too... and I never really figured out what the contaminant really was...

Oh... never trust your ground and ground clamp against your parent metal Introduce that connection point to a 4" flap disc before attaching the ground clamp. I had a guy frustrated by lousy bead development last week, I waved the disc over his ground point to find that it had some sort of scale under the pickling... it'd carry current, but not darned much. it was tough stuff... couldn't even really tell it was there, as it had the same color as metal. I scuffed it clean, and it darned-near burned through on the next try.
 

slip knot

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
12/27/2019
Do the welder manufacturers still have much in the way of customer assistance? A few years back I bought a Hobart squirt gun that wouldn't feed wire. I googled my issue and found the Hobart site actually had a pretty decent forum and troubleshooting section. I posted my issue on the site and with a few moments a Hobart rep told me it was a common problem and how to fix it. he gave me the Hobart part numbers but then told me that If I knew how to read the components values that they could be had way cheaper from digikey. I was surprised how much help I got from them on that issue. I would look into Lincolns site and see if they have some type of forum.
 

circuitman

Registered
it does have a big transformer & a reactor. the secondary is hooked to these MOSFET transistors. when i cahnged the polarity it didn't like it one bit! thanks i'll give it a try. anyone know of a website?
 
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