Miller SRH-333/Hanovia 3 Phase to Single Phase Conversion

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dalmatiangirl61

Subscriber
The machine has been positively identified as a welding machine, and instead of running it on a phase converter I am now in process of converting it to single phase using Haas-Kamp method.

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Before I become the carbon arc I'd like a few other opinions. I don't want to end up in News of the Weird under the natural selection category. I picked this machine up at an auction a few years ago, I'm pretty sure its just a re-branded Milller machine, auction catalog had it listed as a Carbon Arc power supply, and the label makes that a plausible possibility. I contacted mfr on label, they claim no knowledge of this machines existence, so what do you guys think? Can it be used as a welder? Input voltage is 208-230V 3 phase, I have a 20Hp rotary phase converter, can you run welding machines on phase converters?

Thanks
 

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ehpower2

ehpower2

Active member
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

well from the label i would suspect that is a power supply for some sort of arc lamp not a welder possibily for some search light or something of the sort but that is just a guess from the pictures you have posted
 
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PTSideshow

New member
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

You have to have the correct company as more than one has the name, sometimes. This one is located in NJ, and it isn't a carbon arc lamp ballast! It is a UV lamp ballast.
The only reason a company disowns a older product line, or will not endorse or saying out loud, or in writing is on the advice of the legal department! As they are in the UV lamp business not the welding power supply business.

---------- Post added at 07:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 AM ----------

The one located in New Jersey
 
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dalmatiangirl61

Subscriber
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

C'mon guys, gimme a break, I did not call Hanovia asking if I could use this as a welder, I called asking what it was and where it would be used, gave all numbers on case and they acted stupid? Second pic shows output power, looks like a welder specs to me. I'm pretty sure I've seen a Miller with this exact same panel layout, just can't find one now. A quick look on ebay shows a lot of the older white faced Millers with very similar panel layout, 2 meters, a dial, 2 neg terminals (HI/LOW) right, and one pos terminal on left. So forget the label, by the powers specs does it look like a welder?
 
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PTSideshow

New member
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

There is another company by the same name that is in Kentucky, main office is in China. It comes up first in a google search the real one from New Jersey is further down the page.
 
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Richard W.

New member
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

Yes! You can run 3 phase welders on rotary phase converters. Your unit looks like a welder to me. Kinda reminds me of an older "Airco" welder.The remote control switch makes it look to me like it may be able to run a TIG setup. You should be able to run stick and it may be possible to run a wire feed unit on it. If you have a good welding store near you they should be able to tell you what you can and cannot do with it.

I do weld a lot, but welding isn't my specialty.

Richard W.
 
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pegasuspinto

Active member
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

Like is said, it is NOT a welder, but being that it is an arc source, it sure seems like it would burn rod, if it does well as a welder is a better question.

as for power, some welders can be set up to run on single phase, you have to wire all 3 phases to like 240 volt and run in parrallel. if there are no 3 phase cooling motors, this should work fine if it can be reconnected.

Robert
 
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dalmatiangirl61

Subscriber
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

A UV lamp is an arc lamp enclosed in a quartz tube, so the power supply forms and holds the arc. Hmmm, sounds like welding, the machine looks like a welding machine, more than a few folks have inquired about the "Miller" machine in the corner, so I have to point out the label then everyones stumped on whether its a welder or not. Looked at few welders online last night, voltage listed on output for most was 30V, not 50V as this machine indicates. Of course the panel also lists Duty Cycle at 20V, but there is no voltage adjust knob, just amperage adjust, or does voltage go up with amperage:shrug:. Also noticed many welders only have 1 adjust knob but volt and amp meters. Of course thinking about it this morning I realized my mig machine has an amp meter only, but I don't think I've ever looked at it, especially not when I'm welding, which is the only time it works:shrug: So what the heck are those meters for

I think theres a set of leads on an old gas powered Hobart that needs an engine, I guess the only way to find out is giving it a try:crazy::uhoh:
 
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1930Case

New member
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

I'd hook up leads and have at it. The output isn't high voltage but is higher than most welders, so treat with respect.

It's basically just another stick welder.
 
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dalmatiangirl61

Subscriber
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

Update: Posted this over on the Millerwelds.com forum, the local guru thinks its a Miller SRH 222 machine, voltage and OCV ratings are higher than a stock machine, so I've ordered a maintenance manual for that machine and will have to check schematics to see if its been modified in some way:shrug:.
 
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Tim0477

Member
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

Hi,

I was thinking power supply for a large movie projector. Carbon arc lamps were the light source used for movie projection until they were replaced with the short arc xenon lamp. I own a little RCA carbon arc setup that was designed for showing 16mm films in auditoriums. My little unit runs at 28 volts and 30 amps. Bought it from my high school after I graduated. Even came with some extra carbons to burn and a few crappy educational films. I don't think its old selenium rectifier power supply is too efficient. 28volts times 30amps equals 840watts of power being dissipated by the arc lamp, yet it can easily trip a 15amp circuit breaker when running.

Tim
 
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dkamp

eMail NOT Working
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

If it's similar to the SRH-series Millers, you can convert it and get good performance by doing this:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/transformers-phase-converters-vfd/miller-srh-333-240v-single-phase-201310/


Open up the covers and look-see if there's a schematic INSIDE. The SRH-series did it's power control limitation by using a secondary inductor with a smaller (knob-controlled) winding that would saturate the output inductor to 'buck' the output current down to desired levels.

Keep in mind that stick welders are built on the 'constant current' principal, rather than a MIG welder's 'constant voltage'. Also keep in mind that the arc lamp's strike characteristics (voltage and current required to auto-strike) and it's BURN characteristics (voltage and current required to maintain a stable arc) are two totally different things... they may have set up the control scheme of this supply to accomodate the strike/burn needs of the arc lamp, which would make it really funky to use as a stick welder... without first reverse-engineering the mod.
 
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dalmatiangirl61

Subscriber
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

Zombie thread revival! Sorry, back in 2011 in an effort to make room in the shop this item got shoved back into storage for almost another decade, drug it out a few months ago and it is now in Nv shop.

Pulled the side covers last night and the schematic is there, I am now positive this was a Miller unit, whether it was off-the-shelf, or a special order is still an unknown. Anyone know if Miller put a serial# anywhere else on the machine other than the front cover? I'm fairly certain its an SRH-222, but schematic# is slightly different#, but maybe that is due to a different mfr date than the manual at https://www.manualslib.com/manual/583671/Miller-Electric-Srh-222.html

First and second pic below are of schematics inside my machine, 3rd pic is screen shot of schematic for SRH-222 taken from link above.
 

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cobbadog

Active member
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

Keep on researching the question, eventually the right answer can be confirmed exactly what it is. Either way it certainly is an interesting toy.
On my MIG the digital meter reads in Volts not Amps but is like yours, only reads while your welding.
So keep researching before trying it out and finding out the real answer the hard way!

Take care fella.
 
Oldtech

Oldtech

Subscriber
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

Im thinking it's for running a big carbon arc searchlight. as in ww2
 
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dalmatiangirl61

Subscriber
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

Got the top cover off this evening, I don't think there has been too much modification to this machine, but there are a few extra capacitors and ohmite resistors that I do not see in the SRH-333 that Dave converted, but maybe its just because its a different model, idk. If it was modified, my wag is that it was for arc stabilization (sounds good:shrug:) in the carbon arc application.

After reading and re-reading a few times, I think I have my head wrapped around how to do the Haas Kamp conversion in the Practical Machinist thread Dave posted above. Only thing I'm not sure on is the sizing of the caps, I see the equations, still struggling with it.

I'll get some pics of the guts tomorrow.
 
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dalmatiangirl61

Subscriber
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

Sent an email to Miller technical support this morning to see if they can shed any light on this machine, not holding my breath.

Pics below show capacitors which are not in schematic, cut a bunch of zip ties and traced those wires. Pic 2 shows #1 wire from capacitors attached to terminal on transformer, I was standing at front of machine for this pic, wire is attached to left transformer bottom terminal. Pic 3 shows #2 wire from capacitors, it connects to negative low terminal on face of machine. Pic 4 shows capacitor layout and wiring, any of you smart guys care to take a stab at what these capacitors would do?

It would be easy enough to remove capacitors, my feeble mind just does not know if it is the right thing to do:shrug:. I do not see any other obvious changes to the wiring, but without an un-molested unit to compare to, I'm just not sure.
 

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dalmatiangirl61

Subscriber
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

Looking at schematic even a brain dead idiot such as myself can figure out where wire#2 from capacitors attaches to low negative terminal. Looking at connection on machine, and then studying schematic, I think wire #1 from caps is attached between the 2 coil looking things on right edge of schematic labeled Z1 and Z2. Better pic of wire connection below, it is on jumper between the 2 transformers. Of course even if that is correct, I do not understand how the caps affect the angry pixies.

Another slight conundrum has appeared, see pic 2. This wire is hanging loose, it has a female terminal crimped to wire, then a male terminal was inserted, and the little insulation sleeve was covering it all, notice the bridge rectifier behind it with a bare terminal. Schematic shows the bridge and all 4 posts connected, tracing that wire leads to transformer, I believe it is wire#32 in schematic. Wire 180 degrees across the bridge leads to circuit breaker as indicated on schematic. So, part of the modification, or a bad repair? This unit did come from military, and I've seen a lot of really mind boggling repairs there:shrug:
 

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circuitman

Member
Re: Is this a welding machine? Can I run it on a phase converter?

this could be to feed a control board,also could be there to smooth the rectified DC, but the bridge brings that point to ???????. can you post full schematic?:D:D
 
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