National Show for scale models

Casemaker

New member
I think that it would be nice to have a national show for model steamers. From experience I would not encourage being at a show that had too many large steamers due to the fact that most shows set up the coal pile / water supply to accomodate the large steamers and then you have the little engines practically running underneath (or getting ran over by) the big ones to replinish. Does anyone else have any ideas or feedback ?
 

HalfKeck

Subscriber
Sir you are blessed with a great mind, for I have had the same idea. I actually was thinking when I get this new law passed here in TN of having a model only show. It would be really cool to get the different makes and such together and do some work with each of them. One of the best things about a show like this is that you can have one anywhere, as we model owners can travel well. A good truck and trailer and off we go. This year alone I am considering going to shows in five to six states. How many full size engines get around that much?
 

BobTaff

New member
Hi All :wave:
Maybe you may think I shouldn't comment because I am in the UK but as a punter who goes to show in the Uk I can tell you, you can only look at large engines for so long and you can only look at small engines for so long but in a show where you have both engines and much more it makes the show worth paying for.
I suppose it depends how you view the show. Is it a show for owners, or is it a show to show the public your engines and a bygone age and their heritage. The value of holding a show for the public is that they pay to see your engines, and you still get a chance to get together with other engine owners to discuss the merits of the different engines at the same.
Maybe the answer to the problem of big verses small on the Rally field is to organise the event to ensure that both participtents have their time and place not only in the areana but at the coal stack and water trough. I must say from a personal point of view it is really fabulous seeing all the different exhibitors with the same theme together in one place it makes the show for me. :) I think it would be a great shame if people to split off. :(
 

Casemaker

New member
After attending years of shows where the focus is on the big engines - I believe that its time for the models to have their own national forum. Most of the organizations/shows/reunions do very little to accomodate the models. If they are thought of at all - its an after thought at best. The only model friendly shows year in and year out that I can think of is the Mt Pleasant show - there they have their own area and they continue to draw several scale models year in and year out. Rollag is the other show that comes to mind - they have the model land (up in the woods) as well. Neither of these shows have ever did a featured "scale steamer" show. Has anyone else heard of a show that featured "scale steamers" ? If so please let us know :shrug:

I think that it would be neat to have the entire line up of Case 65 models:

6 inch scale (half scale Terning, Steam industries, etc)
5 inch scale (these do exist - handful - but are very rare- 14 inch barrell)
4 inch scale (third scale - Reduction engineering)
3 inch scale (quarter scale - Terning, etc)
2 inch scale (sixth scale - Coles power models)
1 inch scale (twelveth scale - Coles power models).

There is family named Hilker from Montana that had the 1 thru 4 inch scales engines with matching threshing machines. Has anyone seen this group of engines lately ?

I think that another big draw would be to bring engines that are under construction - that would be educational for the general public as well.
 

BobTaff

New member
I think it is such a shame that the models perternity is made to feel this way. I think show organisers should read "National Show for scale models" thread and take note, I believe it is so important if we are to remain focussed on preservation that all the people involved should be made to feel they belong to the movement. As I have said earlier every exhibitor is entitled to his or her time and place in all areas of a show and are of equal importance big is not neccessary best any more than small is. The fact is every person who takes the trouble to renavate, build, give new life to any exhibit deserves the respect of others and their rightfull place in any show. :(

Bob
 

Casemaker

New member
Bob,
with a model you can easily find out just how unimportant you are to large existing steam shows. Once at a large steam show the models had to unload about 1/4 mile away from the coal/wood pile. When we went to fire up we had to go and hand carry our wood for kindling. Wouldnt you think that the show directors had offered to help since we (me, my 8 and 10 yr old) was walking right by with our arms full of wood - while they visited with each other while sitting in their golf cart pickup. They stopped talking and watched us walk by without a word.
 

MYaeger

New member
Obviously, I really don't have a dog in the fight here, but sure like seeing scale models at the little shows I have been to. In fact, I have always been interested in anything scale.

I think if I ever got Granddad's model finished I would assume that I was on my own for wood and water if I ever took it to shows and would probably devise some way to bring my own???? Don't know.:shrug:

I do know that at the Barnes show, I've cut smaller stuff for the little engines the same as I cut HUGE logs for Austins Peerless, at the time. I think most of the model guys scrounged off the shingle mill pile for some of their stuff.

Guess I would just say, hang in there Fellas! :D
 

David Brinkman

New member
Hi Everyone,

I don't do a lot of posting on the forum but thought I would attach a link to a show poster that did feature scale models last year. The James Valley Threshers Association Show in Andover, SD featured scale models and the poster shows some of the engines at the show..
!/2 scale 110 hp Case
1/2 scale 65 hp Case
1/2 scale Kitten
1/4 scale Avery
1/4 scale 65 hp Case this was the engine I was showing
1/4 scale Oil Pull
plus a few others.
Demonstrations of a 1/3 scale and 1/2 scale sawmill were also being done using some of the scale model engines. Each day the parade also featured a scale model engine.

There was a seperate area set-up for the scale models to operate in which was very nice. Yes they did also have full size engines, other tractors and equipment in different areas but everyone got along well and it was a great show. If you want to see a lot of plows in the ground at the same time being pulled by several big engines this is the show, along with threshing and a full size sawmill. Lots of variety for everyone.

I'll try to become a little more active with posting in the future but just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all the information that is provided in the forum. I have learned a lot just from reading.

"Note for Casemaker" - My son and I have the individual parts for the 1/4 scale sawmill about two thirds drawn up in a CAD system on the computer from the information that you sent. We can do the assembly on the computer and animate the sawmill working. Hope to finish the drawings mid summer and start building the sawmill this fall.

http://jamesvalleythreshers.com/poster.html

Thanks,
Dave
 

Casemaker

New member
Dave,
progress on the little saw mill sounds great ! I had never heard that James Valley had so many models. I have several friends that have models that just are not enthused about attending shows anymore, hopefully by getting our own feature show going it will get them bringing their engines once again.
 

HalfKeck

Subscriber
I would like to point out that it is more than wood or coal, it is a mindset at some places. I go to shows where people associated with the show come up to me and let me know that they appreciate our family bringing our equipment there and inquire if there is anything I could use in loading or unloading or access, etc. I also have been to shows where the only person I saw in the five days we were there associated with the show was the lady at the sign in desk. It may be that you all think I expect too much from a show, but if no other engineers come around to talk, and and no one from the show comes by to say hi or thanks for coming, or boo, I get the hint: They have no need for me to tow my model engine up there and work to put on a show. I was NOT having fun when that occurs. I don't go back and they never called to ask why:wave: . Now I fully expect to encounter difficulties getting firewood the proper size and logs for our scale sawmill when I travel. So I try to bring everything I need to operate with except water to the shows I go to. It makes for a lot of loading and unloading, but if my family and I are having fun it makes it all worthwhile :)
 
A

Allen

Guest
I don't have any answers, but I do have a sob story of my own to add. Myself and another fellow are more or less "in charge" of the model table/area at our home show. We both have full sized traction engines that need constant attention so (unfortunately) sometimes the model table has to come in second on the priority list, but we still try to make sure people get what they need.

Sadly, we have been fighting a losing battle trying to get any model owners to actually BRING anything to show lately... I even gave out flyers at Cabin Fever a couple years back, but there were only two guys who showed up. :shrug:

Anyway, because of the apparent apathy, first we lost the steam model table because there were only about 6 models (2 or 3 owners) that regularly used it, and the steam building guys decided when they remodeled that they had other uses for the space. Then last year I brought a bunch of models in showcases only to find that someone else had decided there was "no interest" anymore in models, and had decided that the air model table area would be better utilized by renting it to a flea market guy selling old stock certificates and other paper shtuff. :confused:

At this point, unless somebody comes to me in advance and says "I want to bring models, where do I set up?", I honestly doubt that the club will even bother to rent an air compressor. :uhoh:

If you guys have any suggestions, I'm more than willing to listen.
 

Colin

New member
David Brinkman said:
Hi Everyone,

I don't do a lot of posting on the forum but thought I would attach a link to a show poster that did feature scale models last year. The James Valley Threshers Association Show in Andover, SD featured scale models and the poster shows some of the engines at the show..
!/2 scale 110 hp Case
1/2 scale 65 hp Case
1/2 scale Kitten
1/4 scale Avery
1/4 scale 65 hp Case this was the engine I was showing
1/4 scale Oil Pull
plus a few others.
Demonstrations of a 1/3 scale and 1/2 scale sawmill were also being done using some of the scale model engines. Each day the parade also featured a scale model engine.

There was a seperate area set-up for the scale models to operate in which was very nice. Yes they did also have full size engines, other tractors and equipment in different areas but everyone got along well and it was a great show. If you want to see a lot of plows in the ground at the same time being pulled by several big engines this is the show, along with threshing and a full size sawmill. Lots of variety for everyone.

I'll try to become a little more active with posting in the future but just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all the information that is provided in the forum. I have learned a lot just from reading.

"Note for Casemaker" - My son and I have the individual parts for the 1/4 scale sawmill about two thirds drawn up in a CAD system on the computer from the information that you sent. We can do the assembly on the computer and animate the sawmill working. Hope to finish the drawings mid summer and start building the sawmill this fall.

http://jamesvalleythreshers.com/poster.html

Thanks,
Dave
I forgot about the scale model feature at Andover last year:brows: even though its not steam there was a 4/10ths scale 22-45 hart paar there as well. was the guy that had the little Avery there the owner of justins big 30 special:shrug: found a picture here of the 1/2 110 on the little saw mill in fargo last year. the mill is kinda smoked out though:eek:
 

Attachments

Ray Wangler

New member
Casemaker, thanks for bringing to light the fact that model exhibitors are often in the category of second or third class citizens. I attend several shows each year and I firmly believe that this treatement not intentional. Model exhibitors are typically much more self sufficient.....we unload, drum up our own fuel and water, bring our own crews, tools, and oil, then load up and store our own stuff.

This isn't to say you big engine guys are high maintenance, (but if the shoe fits, I'm sure someone can find a show director to get the shoe, put it on you, tie it......etc:))

Seriously, WMSTR in Rollag MN featured "Miniatureland" in 1990 and has very good facilities for models. There's a mini prony brake and they'll put you on a thresher or saw if you ask. Tons of fun!! Kelly Tytlandsvik hosts an excellent model show in Estevan SK each year in October also, I'd recommend it highly.

Thanks again for the model post, we need to stick together, even if we have to make the glue in our garages!!

Ray
 

KG1584

Subscriber
I would love the idea of a National Show. If that cannot be worked out then maybe the idea of models being a feature at some of the bigger shows. How many times can you feature John Deere and see something new:shrug:
As Ray says we are mainly self sufficient but if we could get together as a group then that would draw more attention from the directors and such - not always but I think it would help.

Casemaker - When my dad was building his 1/2 Baker(www.steamsmith.com), we brought patterns and castings as well as the boiler during various phases of construction. We had more people looking at that then the big engines. The questions we got were great. So many people do not realize what it takes to build something like that let alone operate an engine. We still bring a few patterns and castings to show people the processes involved even though it is done.

I have been making an effort to get to other shows and there are a lot of great models and equipment to go with them.
 

HalfKeck

Subscriber
I agree with KG1584, I saw some of the early stages of the Baker project and it was really neat to see how the patterns and castings were made. There were always people around looking at the parts and discussing with others how this or that went together or was made. Of course one could take some of those mahogany patterns and hang them in your house as decoration, they look that good! That gives me an idea, need to store any KG1584? :)

For anyone that thinks that models are just toys and can't do any work, come down and spend some time with our crew. In July at Boonville IN we go sawing late Fri morning and by mid afternoon Sat had sawed up our entire log pile, some that Tom Hart brought in, some that some other members brought in, and some out of the pile waiting for the big sawmill for a total of over forty (scale) logs in two partial days of sawing. Had a good pile of nice lumber. It's a great feeling when you are sawing and hear the Keck as you bite into another long and see the sawdust fly....can't wait to get to some shows this year!
 

GaarScott

New member
David Brinkman said:
Hi Everyone,

I don't do a lot of posting on the forum but thought I would attach a link to a show poster that did feature scale models last year. The James Valley Threshers Association Show in Andover, SD featured scale models and the poster shows some of the engines at the show..
!/2 scale 110 hp Case
1/2 scale 65 hp Case
1/2 scale Kitten
1/4 scale Avery
1/4 scale 65 hp Case this was the engine I was showing
1/4 scale Oil Pull
plus a few others.
Demonstrations of a 1/3 scale and 1/2 scale sawmill were also being done using some of the scale model engines. Each day the parade also featured a scale model engine.

There was a seperate area set-up for the scale models to operate in which was very nice. Yes they did also have full size engines, other tractors and equipment in different areas but everyone got along well and it was a great show. If you want to see a lot of plows in the ground at the same time being pulled by several big engines this is the show, along with threshing and a full size sawmill. Lots of variety for everyone.

I'll try to become a little more active with posting in the future but just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all the information that is provided in the forum. I have learned a lot just from reading.

"Note for Casemaker" - My son and I have the individual parts for the 1/4 scale sawmill about two thirds drawn up in a CAD system on the computer from the information that you sent. We can do the assembly on the computer and animate the sawmill working. Hope to finish the drawings mid summer and start building the sawmill this fall.

http://jamesvalleythreshers.com/poster.html

Thanks,
Dave

Dave,

You missed one of the feature engines and honoree of the show, and that was the 1/2 scale GaarScott built by my grandfather, Leo P. Huston. Actually, the feature of the show was started because the show wanted to pay homage to three individuals who have given a great amount of their time and money towards the growth of the show since its beginning. Those people are David Fie (the owner of the 1/2 scale 110), Don Redlin (who owns the scale Kitten and built three freelance steam traction engines and one steam truck, which my wife bought from him), and lastly, my grandfather, Leo P. Huston. Each day the at the start of the parade they spoke a little about the history and contributions of each individual. Also, each one of these men took their turn heading the parade. It was because of these three individuals, and the fact that each of them owned scale models, that models became the feature. Speaking my own experience, I found that nothing exceptional was done for those that brought models. I know for myself, I had brought the GaarScott, its water wagon, and Kara's steam truck, which filled up a 32 foot goose neck trailer quite well. When I arrived on the grounds on Friday early afternoon, no one followed me over to the ramp to assist during the unloading or loading for that matter. During the show, we, my family, cut our own wood and hauled it from one side of the show to the other. I also cut and hauled wood for both David and Don's engines. Don's engine did spring a leak early on Friday afternoon before the parade, so his didn't run the rest of the weekend.

Besides it being hot, dry and extremely windy, I found nothing exceptional being done for the models. Jim Briden and David's sawmills were there and they ran them for a few hours in the morning and then again in the afternoon. Other than that, there wasn't much else going on. The show ran like any previous show where the did the big plowing and threshing demonstrations. I'm not trying to pick Andover's show apart, but more could have been done to really feature the models. But with the lack of scaled equipment available, what do you do? All and all, it was an enjoyable show, as most are to me or I wouldn't attend.

As far as a show that really "featured" scale models. I am all for it. It is nice to see other engines run and the equipment that people have built for them. As someone pointed out, being scales, it is considerably easier for us to make a trip from one show to another. I have in the past taken in some seven to eight shows a year. However, with the ever increasing fuel prices and just getting busier with my own family, I have cut down to about half of that number last year and it seems that it will be about the same for this year.

On a side note, would it be possible to get a copy of the Cad drawings of the 1/4 scale sawmill. I have wanted to build a 1/2 scale to go with the GaarScott. You may email me off list at lswanz@superioriron.com. Thanks.

Lawrence
 

Jeff Smith

Subscriber
I am probably opening a can of worms here but I have not seen the issues that you are talking about with the model traction engines at any of the shows I have attended over all the years. The recent shows I have attended were Kinzers (twice - 2003 & 2004) and Wauseon this past summer in 2005 and I did not notice any “attitude” between the “Real Engine Guys & Gals” and the “model folks” that are being presented here. Also, I have attended many shows which feature steam engines, gas engines and tractors, and my father and I have taken our time and money to haul gas engines and tractors to shows that feature that brand equipment and we expected nothing for it other than our own personal satisfaction of taking that item and of being able to walk down rows of other people’s items of the same brand and yak with them because they share the same interest. We have received many “Thanks for bringing your [fill in the blank here]” and show plaques (that are strung out all over the garage and I have managed to get most of them stuffed into one drawer in a garage cabinet when I stumble on them) but other than maybe providing a tent for some of the more rare featured items and maybe letting those items have the premier show spots under the trees, we have never received anything else or special treatment from any of the shows I have attended since 1970. Am I missing something here, or do the model guys have an inferiority complex of some type against the full size engine owners? I may be missing something here, but at least in my observation at Kinzers and Wauseon, the model engines were right in there with the real engines and the owners of both were friendly and great to chat with; in fact, I can honestly say that I have NEVER met more nicer people than I did at NTA in Wauseon this past year than at all of the shows we have attended over the years. It must be that region of the country, but those folks sure were the most friendly of all the shows I have attended and that alone is enough to make me want to fly back up there again someday or even haul something of mine there from Florida.

Please fill me in on what should be expected of shows that feature engines, and also what the model engine owners should receive so that I make sure I can demand mine with my feature engine or when I take my half scale so I don’t miss out on “my piece of the pie”. :shrug:

Jeff Smith
 

TABest55

Sponsor
I don't understand the problem with models at any of the shows. I've had my 1/2 Case at several shows and have never had any problems except our first time at the Florida Flywheelers show. When we arrived and unloaded we went and asked if the pile of wood could be used to burn and some young kid got nasty with us and asked why we needed it. It didn't stop us from enjoying the show and we've been back many times. At no other time did we recieve anything but thanks for bringing something to the shows. As for a National Model show...that would be great too but the reason should be to have a friendly get together and not to SHOW the big engine owners that we don't need them.
 

Jeff Smith

Subscriber
TABest55 said:
I don't understand the problem with models at any of the shows. I've had my 1/2 Case at several shows and have never had any problems except our first time at the Florida Flywheelers show. When we arrived and unloaded we went and asked if the pile of wood could be used to burn and some young kid got nasty with us and asked why we needed it. It didn't stop us from enjoying the show and we've been back many times. At no other time did we recieve anything but thanks for bringing something to the shows. As for a National Model show...that would be great too but the reason should be to have a friendly get together and not to SHOW the big engine owners that we don't need them.
We started cutting and splitting oak firewood on weekends in August and finished in October for the November show only to find that the snowbirds came to the show about a month early (for free camping.........) and took the entire steam engine wood pile next to the firebox to burn for their social gatherings every night at the fire ring next to the main pavilion. Were we happy that they took all the wood with a front end loader and did not replace it so we had to go and find wood off site and haul it in just to get steamed up so we could saw and create slabs for firing the mill??? That is why we became very “protective” of our wood pile during that show and we ran everyone away from it that was trying to get wood for leveling their camper, or to have a fire in front of their camper, or at the main pavilion, etc., etc., etc.

........oh, and by the way Tabest55, if I never told you I was sorry for yelling at you and RoBeRt for trying to ask for wood from the big steam engine pile of wood for your model steamer, I am sorry! (This goes to show you how the “Steam Fashion” thread can be of help to many of us though!)

Jeff Smith
 
Top