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new idea for electronic ignition on MCCK

sdowney717

Registered
Buy some kind of metal proximity sensor.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=Magnetic+Rotate+Speed+Sensor&_sop=15

I have a spec C MCCK.
Idea is use a pickup like these on ebay or something else like a crankshaft position or camshaft position car sensor. They sense iron passing close by the face.
Use this as a trigger with a GM HEI module to fire the coil.

For example from this website.

http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/ignition.htm#cranktriggerkit



My MCCK flywheel has 3 spokes with an outer ring.
I could use a hose clamp to pass by the sensor as the trigger metal. Mount sensor so it points at outer edge of flywheel. Hose clamp would let me adjust the timing.

So is it worth pursuing?
 

Jim McIntyre

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Certainly worth an experiment. The only potential flaws I see is whether the magnetix prox sensor is compatible with the GM HEI module, and the fact that the prox sensors you linked to seem to be no-name Chinese items, so plan on keeping a spare or two around...
 

BRae

Registered
Last Subscription Date
06/08/2015
I am experimenting with a similar setup on my BGM. I machined a hard plastic wheel with a set screw threaded on the outside circumference that I mounted on the gen end and used a crankshaft position sensor from a ford escort and a blue grommet duraspark ignition box. yes I know the BGM already has electronic ignition however, it has no adjustment for timing. let me tell you this setup will throw a spark at least 2 inches. the reason I did this was for several reasons first of all is I am now fueling this generator on natural gas and advancing ignition timing lowers egt's at least 125-150 degrees. Advancing timing may also increase output and efficiency of the engine. I am still in the data collection phase and when time permits I will post data here to see if all the work I went thru pays off. oh the third reason I did this is to have a backup ignition system if for some unforeseen reason the onan unit fails. I have heard testimony on this forum of the plastic flying magnet holder failing.
 

Ed Stoller

Subscriber
Age
79
Last Subscription Date
07/11/2019
The concept is similar to the ignition I have on my Onan OTC 48E. I used Tecumseh trigger pins on the flywheel for an initial TDC spark and an advanced spark once the engine starts running. The trigger coil provides a timing pulse to the Chrysler control module that switched a GM Coil.
 

Attachments

soundbos

Registered
Points aren't all that bad. My OLD Onan 31kw with Continetal flathead six just started perfectly after setting for 7 years it is a 1959 unit with original points and condensor (and plugs) just gota love LP gas engines:D

Butch
 

sdowney717

Registered
I bought an NPN proximity sensor and will try this out.
I can leave the points as backup.
It will fire a spark, just a matter of getting the timing right.
Idea of a movable band clamp seems good to fine tune timing. And need to figure out a bracket to hold the sensor.
After I figure out the positioning, maybe more permanent steel slotted part attached to flywheel, slotted to adjust timing, or just use the screw clamp. Any other ideas?

NPN sensor Detection Distance: 4 mm

points are ok, on MCCK they are not easy to get the adjustment perfect.
I just redid the points and was thinking got to be a better way.
My main engines I use pertronix ignitiors. This has been flawlessly reliable. The prior owner was always messing with points. I remember when I got it he was in there cleaning-adjusting them before the boat ride.
 

OnanParts

Sponsor
Last Subscription Date
06/20/2020
On my two MCCK gensets I have both the original points ignition and the later Onan electronic ignition module/rotor setup. A toggle switch so I can use either one. If the module or rotor fails I flip the switch over to the points and deal with it later. :)
 

sdowney717

Registered
On my two MCCK gensets I have both the original points ignition and the later Onan electronic ignition module/rotor setup. A toggle switch so I can use either one. If the module or rotor fails I flip the switch over to the points and deal with it later. :)
It will work, but perhaps I would need a different cover.
And it would cost a lot more money.
Cover $25
Magnet ring $20
Onan Module $50? (I looked on ebay and was pricey part)
so maybe $100 total. And have to pull flywheel, maybe cover, maybe more work.

My idea
Inductive pickup $3
GM HEI seen on ebay for $12, autozone $27
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Duralast-Ignition-Control-Module/_/N-9n80t?itemIdentifier=115808_0_0_
my ingenuity to create a bracket $0

My cost $3.
Others cost $15 to 30 depending on where they get the GM HEI module

I will design this so only one wire will need to be moved back to the points tower. Simply move where it connects on terminal C of the GM HEI, back to points tower and it will run on points again.
 

Ed Stoller

Subscriber
Age
79
Last Subscription Date
07/11/2019
I started with a NAPA ICR23 ballast resistor. The ignition worked O.K. , but the current draw was 6 Amps. The 5 Amp fuse was warm. So I used two ballast resistors in series to drop the current to 3.5 Amps. The second ballast resistor is behind the frame in the picture. One resistor was 1.2 Ohms and the other 1.3 Ohms cold. The resistance will change when it gets hot.
 
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PnishrPW

Registered
Ed, thx for the info. I mathed it out awhile back, and came up w/ ~3.5 ohms, but I`m a conservative engineer... I figured my numbers based on a ~.6 ish ohm primary common Delco coil pack, same as yours. I like you are using a Mopar module. Mopar module will trigger directly from points also, (actually, they will trigger off most anything!).

Sdowney, good cheap tech - I like it.

I`m thinking, if you keep the points you should set then block the points slightly open so they don't wear.
 

J.B. Castagnos

Registered
Last Subscription Date
01/01/2006
The GM module fires when the polarity switches, I don't know if it's - to + or + to -. If the pickup is wired correctly it will fire when the interrupter passes the pickup, fast or slow, if wired backwards it will fire as the interrupter is approaching or passing, and will vary with speed. Be sure you have it right.
 

len k

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
12/12/2018
The modified hi-energy coil will likely draw more amps from bat. Older Onans like the CCK, NH, ect used a simplistic resistor to regulate charging current to bat. If you change the amps drawn by the engine enough you will have to compensate by changing charging resistor value, or you may find bat is low. Even some of the newer Onans didn't use a DC regulator (NHD, NHE , NHM and their little brothers BGD, BGE, BGM .)
 
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sdowney717

Registered
Ed, thx for the info. I mathed it out awhile back, and came up w/ ~3.5 ohms, but I`m a conservative engineer... I figured my numbers based on a ~.6 ish ohm primary common Delco coil pack, same as yours. I like you are using a Mopar module. Mopar module will trigger directly from points also, (actually, they will trigger off most anything!).

Sdowney, good cheap tech - I like it.

I`m thinking, if you keep the points you should set then block the points slightly open so they don't wear.
And would be very easy to do. Put a block between the point faces to prop them open.
 

len k

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
12/12/2018
Might want to leave them operational as a quick backup, just disconnect the wire near coil. It's rough working on equipment in cold winter winds, points are cheap.
 

J.B. Castagnos

Registered
Last Subscription Date
01/01/2006
The GM modules have a variable dwell, coil is only charged as long as necessary, at idle it's a very short time, when rpm's increase dwell increases. This keeps current draw at a minimum and resistors aren't necessary. With the engine off, ignition on there will be little if any current flowing through the coil.
 

Ed Stoller

Subscriber
Age
79
Last Subscription Date
07/11/2019
You are absolutely right about the Chrysler control module triggering off the points. On my Onan W3M, I made a temporary ignition that used a micro switch at TDC for the starting spark and the induction coil/ trigger pin for the advanced spark as the RPM picked up.( I have cleaned up that ignition now and use the primary winding of the failed Wico to charge the ignition battery.)
 
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