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SCSInet's Kohler Resurrection (maybe)

DKamp

Registered
That looks like a type of oil-bath filter.... it MAY be easy to find 'in the right circles', but you may find that a similar will bolt up, or if not, you can do what I do... crude, but very effective:

Cut a piece of aluminum sheet to fit the hole, big enough so that a HEPA shop-vac filter (from your local big-box store) can fit atop it, then make another flat piece for the top, to fit in it's place... I add the cheesecloth bag and foam prefilter over it, and if you're concerned about incidental contact, or rain... invert a 2-gallon plastic bucket over the top of it....
 

SCSInet

Registered
That looks like a type of oil-bath filter.... it MAY be easy to find 'in the right circles', but you may find that a similar will bolt up, or if not, you can do what I do... crude, but very effective:

Cut a piece of aluminum sheet to fit the hole, big enough so that a HEPA shop-vac filter (from your local big-box store) can fit atop it, then make another flat piece for the top, to fit in it's place... I add the cheesecloth bag and foam prefilter over it, and if you're concerned about incidental contact, or rain... invert a 2-gallon plastic bucket over the top of it....
That may be an option if it comes down to it.

Donaldson makes industrial air cleaner assemblies for this sort of application. I've been looking at these as an option. I need to figure the airflow though.

My thought is that since I know the RPM of the engine, if I knew the displacement, I should be able to mathematically estimate the airflow requirements.

Does anyone have any specs on the engine?

So nobody has to search, here is the nameplate information:

White Engine Company
332 7564 G2300 X230

From my research, I believe that White Engine Company became Hercules, and the engine is a G2300. I have found specs on the diesel variant of this engine, but I can't find specs on the gas/LP variant.

If someone happens to have a service manual... that I can't seem to find either.
 

AlanR

Registered
Your formula for airflow is RPM x CID x Volumetric Efficiency divided by 3456. Diesel VE is about .85, gas at 1800 rpm about .70
and at least one source says it's 3.7L

Alan
 

SCSInet

Registered
Your formula for airflow is RPM x CID x Volumetric Efficiency divided by 3456. Diesel VE is about .85, gas at 1800 rpm about .70
and at least one source says it's 3.7L

Alan
I assume that CID is Cubic Inches of Displacement? I'm assuming so because if you run the math using 3.7, it comes out to 1.34 CFM which is ... unrealistically low. But if you convert 3.7 liters to Cubic Inches you get about 226, so that's 82 CFM which at least "sounds right"...
 

DKamp

Registered
Hercules was absorbed by White... along with several other companies. White grew from a manufacturing company into more of an investment/acquisitions company... they took control of lots of companies, but make no mistake- your engine was made by Hercules.

If you do a web search on Hercules G2300, you'll find all sorts of great info. It's a 226ci engine, form 27-84hp depending on speed that it was run at.

No need for airflow calculations- the entrance of that tube tells you everything you need to know. If the air filtration system you put on is same or larger, no problem. Most likely, at 1800rpm, the full airflow potential of that inlet will never be challenged... and again... the generator application is best satisfied by an engine who's torque curve drops off rapidy above the governed synchronous speed. Most guys who mess with generators, do engine swaps, etc., don't get it...
 

SCSInet

Registered
During the evenings this week, I've been slowly prepping things for painting and doing some other repairs as I've gone long.

First, I finally managed to separate the fan cage from the radiator. The slotted screws holding the cage on were so badly frozen that I was "mashing" the heads of the screws trying to loosen them. I finally ended up cutting the heads off the screws and drilling the remnants of the bolts out of the housing. I'll replace them with stainless bolts and ny-locks so I ever have to take them out again, I won't have a problem.

The cage was broken in (3) places. I decided to TIG weld them back into place, since I can do a very low current, gentle weld and not burn through the metal wires. It only took about 25 amps current to do it, so I'm glad I didn't try it with the MIG welder. The welds aren't perfect, but neither was the metal I was working with...


IMG_20200521_120049.jpg


I started masking parts of the engine off for painting. I've still got some more cleanup to do, I keep going back and looking at it again after leaving it alone for a while and find more areas that need a flake of paint removed or smoothed out.

IMG_20200521_120946.jpg

I really, really hope this is the last time I have to take that end housing off and put it back on. I've done it so. many. times. now. I could have masked it, but it needed come off anyway so the magnets could get coated and to varnish the windings on the armature.

While I was at it, I got a chance to carefully inspect the new magnets. You may recall from earlier posts that when I first did a voltage output test, I had a lingering bit of the old magnets get expelled from the generator end. I was able to look very closely at the new magnets, and they were in perfect condition (so it wasn't one of the NEW magnets that got damaged), and the bits of stuff all over them were definitely old magnet pieces. So that mystery is solved once and for all.

Finally, since I took the collar that fits between the generator end and engine off, I could get a look inside that end for close inspection, and I cannot find any old magnet pieces remaining anywhere. Hopefully there's not one hiding somewhere, but short of pulling the entire generator end apart, I've done the best I can.
 

SCSInet

Registered
I finished coating the magnets on the end bracket. I accomplished this by mixing fairly large amounts of epoxy and spreading them across the magnets to coat them completely, and also to provide further hold-down of the magnets.


IMG_20200527_143458.jpg

IMG_20200527_143518.jpg

Once the epoxy has more time to cure, I'll probably paint the whole thing with another coat, this time covering over the magnet area completely to seal off any tiny voids I may have missed. This should completely seal the magnets from any exposure to moisture permanently.


Painting of the rest of the machine is now in progress and will take some time. There are lots of parts to do.

I tried the Dupli-Color gold paint I mentioned earlier in this thread and I didn't like the way that looked either. I decided to just go a different direction and am painting the engine and generator housing in a cast-iron gray color (at least that's what it's called on the label). I figured it was better to go a different direction entirely with the color than to have it look like I tried to make it look like the Kohler gold color and didn't get it right. I'm painting the frame with a gloss black oil based enamel, mostly because that's something I had already.

Not ready to post pictures of that yet.... stay tuned.
 

SCSInet

Registered
I got my new air filter assembly in today.

The original air cleaner had a second port that connects to a "dome" type of cover that sits down on the valve cover.

Air Cleaner Second Hose.jpg

I am hoping someone can help me understand what the purpose of this hose is? I know on more modern engines a setup like this is part of the PCV system, but this engine predates all that (or does it?), so I have no idea of the significance of it here.

Is this something that I have to find a way to accommodate on the new air filter, or can I just leave this port on the valve cover open and unconnected, provided I don't allow rainwater or anything like that to get inside?
 

Zephyr7

Registered
Looks like a breather tube to me. Typically crankcase breathers are setup so that the engine ingests and burns any oily air from blowby. Your tube looks like it goes to the valve cover which seems a bit odd to me, but likely serves a similar purpose.

Bill
 
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Vanman

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
06/10/2020
Want to be careful about letting an engine breathe it’s own blow-by. The oily air will collect as deposits on the back of the intake valves unless gasoline is present in the intake air stream to keep it cleaned off. So you will see that diesel engines do not vent the crankcase into the intake manifold, and I’d expect the same for gaseous fueled engines.

Keith
 

Zephyr7

Registered
. So you will see that diesel engines do not vent the crankcase into the intake manifold, and I’d expect the same for gaseous fueled engines.
True, but gaseous fueled engines also tend to burn very much cleaner so any blowby will likely have less gunk in it so presumably less issues.

The big question for me is why is the VALVE COVER vented like this? I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before.

Bill
 

Vanman

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
06/10/2020
The big question for me is why is the VALVE COVER vented like this? I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before.

Bill
A convenient place for a crankcase vent? Very common on automotive engines at least.

Keith
 

SCSInet

Registered
A convenient place for a crankcase vent? Very common on automotive engines at least.

Keith
I would agree. On an overhead cam engine maybe not so much, but on a pushrod engine, there are plenty of direct openings right down into the crankcase....



It sounds like my choices are to either drill a hole in the output (to engine) port of the air cleaner and install a hose barb to connect back to this hose, or to run a hose down the engine and away so that the oily vapor doesn't cause a gunk buildup on my shiny clean engine.

I was, among other things at my previous company, in charge of our standby generator, an old Generac 250kw with a 13.3 Hino Diesel on it. It had, as was pointed out, a tube installed much the same way, but this one was run down the side of the engine, but was allowed to vent to the open air, not into the air cleaner. It did not have permanent exciter field magnets though. :rolleyes:

The original Kohler air cleaner clearly had a factory installed port on the housing for this hose. So strange as it may sound to be done this way, this is definitely the way Kohler designed it.

That said, it does seem apparent that we are at a consensus that it's not absolutely necessary to connect it to the air cleaner, this was just a convenient place to put it, especially considering a machine built open frame (thus designed to run indoors). BUT, it does not appear from the discussion here that the air cleaner connection is necessary (so as to draw a vacuum on the hose...). That was my greatest concern, that I'd mess something up by not connecting it back exactly as it was. It sounds like I don't have to, either of the above options should be acceptable...?
 

Zephyr7

Registered
Since air filters are intentionally designed to have minimum back pressure, I doubt you’d be able to pull much vacuum on a hose connected to the air filter.

I hadn’t thought of the valve cover having vent passages down into the crankcase. I’m used to “crankcase breathers” connected to the crankcase :)

Bill
 

SCSInet

Registered
Painting of the main machine and most of the parts is complete.

As I said above, I decided not to use the gold paint I bought. I didn't like the way it looked, so I decided to switch to my two colors being gray and black.

The generator end enclosure parts have not been painted yet. Those are going to require more work, as the sheet metal suffered some major rust damage.

The eagle eyed will notice that I removed the machine mounts. This was so that I could get paint onto the frame underneath the mounts and hopefully avoid any further corrosion, or at least slow it down. I do not have the means to remove the machine entirely from the frame, so I used a bottle jack to the lift one side off the mounts and install 1/2" threaded rods and such to leave it in place, elevated. That kept it from falling off the frame, so the other side (the generator end side) I just jacked it up, removed the mounts, and stuck some shim material under it to keep it elevated.
This won't let me paint the entire top of the frame posts, but it allowed me to get most of it.

IMG_20200526_172826.jpg


As I stripped the machine down, I kept track of the size/length of every fastener and where each went. This let me build a shopping list. I bulk ordered nuts and washers from McMaster-Carr, but it wasn't practical to get the bolts this way because McMaster only sells them in bulk quantities. At that point it becomes cheaper to pay the higher "each" price at the hardware store.

I also decided to replace the machine mounts. The rubber was not in the best of shape, so probably better safe than sorry. I managed to find some at McMaster that were identical to the ones I had, so no modification was necessary. This was also a selling point.

All fasteners I bought in stainless so nothing would corrode later. None of the fasteners that I am replacing require high strength (not replacing head bolts or anything like that) so there was no need for Grade 8.

IMG_20200530_143720.jpg


Also, I varnished the windings of the exciter armature. It's kind of hard to tell in the picture, but it's all nice and glossy now. I lightly sanded the top of the pole pieces to take the light rust off before coating it, just so it would look a little more awesome.

IMG_20200530_143733.jpg


I repainted the end assembly like I said I would now that the magnets are all coated in epoxy. The buddy that helped me do a load test got social-distancing-cabin-fever and decided to come over yesterday and we watched the SpaceX launch, and I put the end housing back on afterwards. While I was doing it, we were talking about the launch and I got distracted and forgot to take pictures of it. That's really a shame, because it looked REALLY good.


I have LOTS more to post. All the painting actually happened last weekend, I've been putting everything out in the driveway to sit in the sun every day this week to harden the paint as much as possible before I started reassembling, which is what happened this weekend. After dinner I'll post more.
 

SCSInet

Registered
Yep, I lied, and didn't post anything further last night. My bad.

I started on re-assembly yesterday. The first of two highlights is the alternator.

The alternator that was on the generator when I bought it is certainly not the alternator that originally came with the machine. Someone had installed a different alternator, and used a piece of copper tubing as a spacer on the alternator hinge bracket to make it fit. Sort of. I replaced that piece of copper tubing with some stainless steel spacer stock, then when I tried to fit it up, I discovered a problem.

The main issue I found is that the hole on the alternator frame for the bolt in the bracket that forms the hinge was far larger than the bolt, so the alternator "flopped" around in the hinge and would not stay in position to keep it's pulley aligned.


Here, you can already see that the alternator is crooked. It straightens up when it's secured to the adjustment arm at the top, but that piece of metal is not designed to keep it straight. That will stress the upper bracket, and either bend it or fatigue and break it eventually.
IMG_20200531_120836.jpg


Here is a better view, sighting down the front of the alternator. You can see how crooked it is.
IMG_20200531_120852.jpg

This explains why I found pieces of belt all over the inside of the radiator. The sheave misalignment was tearing up belts. The belt I have that came with it is in reasonably good shape, so my guess is that a belt got destroyed at some point in the past and was replaced by someone who didn't realize that this was the root cause of the problem.


This had to be fixed.

I measured the hole, and it was about 0.5 inch, and not very round. A 3/8 inch bolt will be a pretty loose fit:
IMG_20200531_120939.jpg


The first thing I did was bore out the hole to 5/8 to make it truly round. Then, I got out the rest of the Delrin rod that I used to make the slip rings for the exciter test, and made a bushing on the lathe. I got lucky here, Delrin is a great polymer to use for bushings that don't experience much rotation.

Basically I machined it's outer diameter to be a bit bigger than 5/8, and the center hole to be a close fit on the shank of the hinge bolt.
IMG_20200531_123809.jpg

Then I just pressed it into the hole in the alternator frame with an arbor press:
IMG_20200531_124012.jpg

IMG_20200531_124016.jpg
 
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SCSInet

Registered
AHHH!!! A nice close fit.
IMG_20200531_124038.jpg


As straight of an alignment as can be reasonably expected. If it looks crooked here, it's the camera angle. Trust me, by eye alone it appears perfectly aligned.
IMG_20200531_124716.jpg

Everything fit up stunningly well. This was one of my victories yesterday.
IMG_20200531_124959.jpg
 
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SCSInet

Registered
The next snag I hit was the oil pressure sensor block. When reinstalling it, I decided to fit a standard pressure gauge to the block so that I always could verify oil pressure without relying on electronics.

Upon reinstalling it...
InkedIMG_20200531_120901.jpg

Yup, it's cracked. So I took it back off to verify with certainty:
InkedIMG_20200531_150843.jpg


My guess is that it's just old fatigued metal. It didn't leak before, so presumably it wasn't cracked before. I found the crack after installing the new pressure gauge (you can see the new brass nipple on the right hand side of the block in the above pictures). But, I never noticed any sort of resistance when threading it in. I have a feeling it cracked during me putting the fitting in, but it didn't take much to crack it, so there was probably something wrong with the block in the first place.

Luckily I had some aluminum bar stock on the shelf. It's a little bigger than this stuff, but it will work. I also checked into ordering some brass stock to use, but that stuff is so horribly expensive, I decided to stick with aluminum. That's the original material anyway.

It wasn't all that difficult to do, I just laid out all of the locations, marked which holes needed to be through holes and which not, dimpled, and drilled:
IMG_20200531_151348.jpg

IMG_20200531_152649.jpg


IMG_20200531_162221.jpg
 
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