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Onan: The Devil's 5CCK has risen from the dead. Praise the Lord!

Zephyr7

Registered
Maybe some water or lube oil ran down and got on that brush, then collected dirt and seized it. Always an adventure when restoring old stuff!

I suppose if the new brush seats correctly moves in the holder as it should, you should be ok. I just always like to be able to point my finger at something and say “THAT was the problem!” Conclusively. Whenever I have some problem where I can’t find a cause, or things I “fix” by doing nothing, or at least nothing that makes any sense, I’m always nervous that I missed something somewhere.

Bill
 

Vanman

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
That kind of failure looks like the mate to the burned brush was not making contact. In other words the problem is not where it appears.

Make sure that the Opposite brush is making good contact, And that the wiring to it is intact.

This is a four pole machine, so there are four brushes, two circuits in parallel. A poor connection in one circuit decreases the current in that circuit and INCREASES the current in the remaining circuit.

Keith
 

Zephyr7

Registered
. A poor connection in one circuit decreases the current in that circuit and INCREASES the current in the remaining circuit.
Such a failure of the opposite brush will also DRASTICALLY increase the arcing of the remaining brush...

You may be on to something here vanman.

Bill
 
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JohnnyC

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/18/2020
I think the culprit was the brush with the melted lead. It was seized in its holder like glue. No amount of spring tension would help to provide the proper tension and the brush may have worn past the point of making a good contact. The brush was seized in its holder so badly I had an extremely difficult time removing it without damaging the holder. The other 3 brushes moved freely in their holders. As already stated, the extremely dirty commutator did not help the situation.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
 

JohnnyC

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/18/2020
After about 3 weeks of late weekday evenings and all weekend long modifications to the house and no time for Onan therapy, I am back on Onan schedule finally. All work to the house is done, the old 87 year old fart is back home and the 24x7 live-in healthcare worker is doing and excellent job since last Wednesday when she arrived. Now I got extra time, but now I caught a cold as of last night (sore throat). Everyone at work is sick, so now it's my time, but that did not stop me.

Today I started to clean up the workshop so I can start preparing to paint my DJA and DJB-MS carts but that is for a different thread. For the main focus on today's Onan Therapy I played around with the Devil's CCK. I removed the air cleaner box. There was a lot of corrosion inside of the bottom of the air cleaner canister. The filter itself was not good either. I'll try cleaning it somehow or replace it. The air cleaner to carburetor hose is shot. The rubber has deteriorated. I will replace all the DC brushes and spring clip holders as already discussed. The AC brushes are not bad which surprised me. I may replace the spring clip brush holders for the AC brushes once I located new clips holders. I would like to replace the bell frame end bearing. It looks weather beaten, but did not seem to make noise, but how can I tell since the set does not have a muffler. To replace the bearing I will need to remove the bell frame housing which holds the entire brush assembly. What the hell, I may as well tear it all apart, but I ain't painting it. Lastly, I found the perfect muffler for the Devil's CCK which I had laying around.

As usual, I like to entertain the group with pictures of my work since a picture is worth a thousand words, so here a few as follows with explanations.

The first picture shows the inside of the air cleaner box. The left side shows the bottom. It is nasty. Lots of crud and rust. The right side shows the air filter element. It looks a lot better in the picture than what it really is.

The second picture shows the hose that is connected between the carburetor air horn and the air filter box. As can be seen on the right side of the picture the hose is not in good condition and must be replaced.

The third picture shows the Devil's CCK brush next to a new brush. The picture of the new brush was found on the internet and is new. As can be seen, the Devil's brush is not too bad especially compared to the DC brushes.

Lastly, the fourth picture shows the muffler that I will mount onto the Devil's CCK exhaust pipe. It is a light weight after market motorcycle muffler. I think the hot color is appropriate for this set.

JohnnyC
New Jersey


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Zephyr7

Registered
You really need to paint some flames on this set JohnnyC. Maybe add some horns that light up while it’s running, similar to the hello kitty head on the infamous pink onan :)

Glad to hear stuff is getting back to normal again. Being deprived of tinkering with our toys for too long is our own kind of cabin fever.

Bill
 
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JohnnyC

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/18/2020
After work today I wanted to see if I should replace the bearing in the bell frame that supports the generator shaft since I'm going to replace the DC brushes and clean it up. An alternative to replacing the bearing is to clean out all the old grease and pack the bearing with new grease as long as there is no wear or rust in the bearing assembly. If I replace the bearing it may be a 2 hour job, requires the removal of the bell frame end and the cost for a new Nachi bearing is less than $14.00. If I clean and repack the grease in the old bearing, the job is less than 30 minutes and no need to do anything else to the set. I have not made up my mind yet, but most likely I will do a bearing replacement. It is cheap insurance knowing that a new QUALITY bearing will last decades.

JohnnyC
New Jersey

I took several pictures showing the condition of the old bearing as follows:

If I replace the bearing the bell frame end must come off (the yellow part in the picture below) along with the entire brush assembly.
006.jpg

This is what the black seal of the bearing looked like before cleaning the it. Nasty looking.
001.jpg

Here is a closeup of the bearing's seal after removing the crud. The seal is shot. It would not hold back moisture from entering the bearing.
002.jpg

After popping off the seal this is what grease from 1969 looks like. Not too bad. I may clean out the old grease using Brakleen and compressed air and check for rust and abnormal wear. Upon making a complete assessment I might repack the bearing or replace it, but since the seal is shot I may replace it instead. It all depends how much coffee I drink before digging into it.
003.jpg

Below is the Nachi bearing part number. They are not expensive and I always replaced them in the past on my other sets. Do it once, do it right.
004.jpg
 

len k

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
12/12/2018
Think I`ld just replace it, it's small money. Seal will be destroyed to clean out bearing. Plus your assuming race and balls are OK, not pitted.

Other thing I've learned the hard way is do it NOW while your young healthy and strong. That way when your older you'll have what you need. Things happen as you get older, sometime sooner than you expect
 
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HBSaunders

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/10/2019
Glad to see you back and resuming the Onan teaching academy. There are a bunch of professors here and a lot of us eager to learn students. We're never too OLD.... I forget the rest. Maybe I need some of it.
 

Zephyr7

Registered
Im sure that bearing replacement will be a multi-day job JohnnyC. Once you get the bell housing apart, you’ll pop in the new bearing... then you’ll find some thin spots in the yellow paint, so you’ll strip it. Then prime it... then hunt around for the precise match to the original yellow paint before painting it.

You’ll end up with a beautiful JohnnyC restoration job, but don’t think it will end with that new bearign ;)

Bill
 

JohnnyC

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/18/2020
Im sure that bearing replacement will be a multi-day job JohnnyC. Once you get the bell housing apart, you’ll pop in the new bearing... then you’ll find some thin spots in the yellow paint, so you’ll strip it. Then prime it... then hunt around for the precise match to the original yellow paint before painting it.

You’ll end up with a beautiful JohnnyC restoration job, but don’t think it will end with that new bearign ;)

Bill
Bill, this set is going to be different. I plan to leave it in its rust patina. The Devil told me his church was fixed up, but left with the run down creepy patina. I will follow his lead on this. My goal is to get it running at 100% where I can bet my life on it when needed as I have high expectations on things I fix up. However, I may add a little flame red tint to it.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
 

JohnnyC

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/18/2020
Tonight I bit the bullet and removed the bell frame end to remove the bearing. Easy job, so why fight it. I will buy the bearing sometime before the weekend. While the bell frame and brush assembly is removed from the set I'll clean it up to ensure all the brushes are 100% free to move in their holders. Below are several pictures of tonight's work.

JohnnyC
New Jersey


After removing the 2 nuts that hold the bell frame to the generator as well as all leads that need to be removed from the brush assembly as well as pulling the brushes from their holders, I used a two jaw puller to easily remove the bell frame from the set along with the brush assembly.
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Below is the bell frame seperated from the set. The bearing is still on the shaft.
001.jpg

Next, remove the bearing. This can be a bit tough so use a good puller. I will admit, this bearing did put up a good fight, but JohnnyC won the fight as you will se in the next picture.
002.jpg

Job done as far as removing the old bearing. I'll post more on this when I get the new bearing and reassemble this mess.
006.jpg
 

JohnnyC

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/18/2020
Wednesday's update: Today I am sick at home. I caught a bad cold and have bronchitis. I went to the doctor this morning and got antibiotics and cough syrup. I'm keeping far away from the old goat for now. Since I'm home and bored, I decided to continue with the bell end frame and brush assembly. I took it all apart and currently washing the bell end frame and brush assembly holder in the dishwasher. I want to show several pictures of today's work with explanations. See pictures below:

JohnnyC
New Jersey

The following picture shows the slip rings and commutator. They don't look too bad, but may need to be polished a bit. Nothing broken, pitted or melted.
003.jpg

Below is a picture of all brushes side by side. The 3 brushes on the left make contact with the slip rings for a/c. They appear to not be too badly worn. The 4 brushes on the right make contact with the DC commutator. They are shot and are not evenly worn. The brush with the yellow thingie what the brush that had its lead melted apart. This brush was seized and seized hard in it's brush holder.
004.jpg

This picture shows the brush holder that had the seized DC commutator brush. I had to expand the holder in order to remove the brush for repair. The brush felt like it was expoxy in the holder before I expanded the brush holder to remove the brush.
007.jpg

The picture below shows the brush assembly seperated from the bell frame and brushes removed.
006.jpg


Don't tell the boss, but I am using a make-shift parts washer to clean the bell frame and brush block.
008.jpg


If Cascade is good enough for cleaning stuck-on messes, it's good enough for cleaning the bell frame and brush assembly. The JohnnyC parts washer is currently running and I'll show the results in an hour or two (if I'm still alive).
009.jpg
 

len k

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
12/12/2018
... I had to expand the holder in order to remove the brush for repair. The brush felt like it was expoxy in the holder before I expanded the brush holder to remove the brush.
Possibly PO thought it was loose and crimped it tighter??

Maybe the devil made him do it??👹:devilish:
 

Tracy T

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/16/2019
aside from the DC brushes not wearing evenly and that one being repaired, they actually dont look that bad.
 

JohnnyC

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
03/18/2020
Dishes are done, Onan parts too. The dishwasher did an excellent job of removing dirt and crud. It will not remove oxidation from the brass brush holders. Let's see what I can do about it.

Once again more pictures.

JohnnyC
New Jersey

Self explanitory. Dishes are clean.
002.jpg

Dirt and crud removed from the brush assembly. Oxidation of the brass brush holders will require further work.
003.jpg


Bell frame clean and is ready for media blasting, prime and paint.
004.jpg


Dishes are done too (Onan parts quickly removed). The Boss will be proud of me that I did something to help her for a change.
006.jpg
 

Zephyr7

Registered
Bell frame clean and is ready for media blasting, prime and paint.
I KNEW it! :)

Be careful dishwashing old phenolic parts. I've occasionally (rarely, but when least expected) had those parts swell and/or delaminate in hot water before. This sucks bigtime since it seems to be the most unobtanium of parts that have this problem.

Brasso will clean up the brush holders.

That stuck brush kinda sorta looks to me like maybe someone couldn't find, or didn't bother to look for, the correct brush and filed some other kind of brush in an attempt to make it fit in the brush holder in the Onan. Someone doing that probably thought a tight fit was a GOOD thing, which might explain the problems with that one stuck brush...

Bill
 

len k

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
12/12/2018
For cleaning oily parts ( car engines) I get it hot , wash it down with gasoline and a paint brush, let sit 5 minutes, spray on Fantastic (kitchen cleaner) , let sit 5 minutes , wash it all off. Works real well.

But don't use Fantastic on cast aluminum parts ( car alternators, etc ) it makes tiny white spots ( corrosion I guess).

Just a guess..... Might?? do same on parts made from aluminum plate and bar stock
 
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