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The Great Minneapolis Line

Gary K

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/15/2019
I have never counted, but I bet there's more Minneapolis steam engines than any other make at WMSTR in Rollag, MN.?

I thought I'd start a Minneapolis thread, as I'm sure theres a lot of knowledgeable Minneapolis men out there, that can share their photos and stories! I know that Minneapolis built some big engines, and some that are quite rare today . . . speaking of which . . . why did they make this one model with two stacks?

The 45 h.p. at Rollag is an impressive looking engine with that huge tandem compound engine. I guess it was quite a project bringing that engine into existence? Beautiful restoration job, and it runs so smooth and quiet!

Gary K
 

Casemaker

Registered
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

I am more into models but have owned a 1/3 scale Minn Return flue and hear that someone is building a 1/2 scale of the twin stack Minn engine. I know of the following Minn engines in our area:

20 hp - Carol Jerome
24 hp - Terry/Donnie Bodine
24 hp - Marshall Ill
20 hp - Arcola Ill
 
Last Subscription Date
11/13/2013
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

Gary K said:
I have never counted, but I bet there's more Minneapolis steam engines than any other make at WMSTR in Rollag, MN.?

I thought I'd start a Minneapolis thread, as I'm sure theres a lot of knowledgeable Minneapolis men out there, that can share their photos and stories! I know that Minneapolis built some big engines, and some that are quite rare today . . . speaking of which . . . why did they make this one model with two stacks?

The 45 h.p. at Rollag is an impressive looking engine with that huge tandem compound engine. I guess it was quite a project bringing that engine into existence? Beautiful restoration job, and it runs so smooth and quiet!

Gary K
Gary K,
Your thread should have a picture of that 45 hp Minneapolis Richard Rorvig restored for the late Norman Pross. I took this photo last fall and I see I got some others as well.
Gary;)

 
Last Subscription Date
11/13/2013
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

Gary K,
I took this photo several years ago of the late Kim Tuttle engineering the late Austin Monk's 28 hp heavy boiler Minneapolis engine. Carl and Kim Tuttle enjoyed this engine and often came to Kalispell to run this engine.



This photo shows Kim at the throttle and Austin steering as they plowed at a NWAPA show with Austin's 12 bottom Verity plow. Austin remarked to me how hard this ground was to plow.

Carl Tuttle bought this Verity plow from Austin and hauled it to Pawnee, Oklahoma, so he'd have a plow there for his 110 hp Case. Austin said Carl remarked to him, the 110 worked harder pulling it at Pawnee than the Minneapolis did at Columbia Falls.:eek:
Gary;)

 

Gerald Parker

Registered
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

Thanks for starting this small forum on Minneapolis steam engines! It is great to see the pictures of that 28 pulling the 12 bottom plow! Someone referred to that 28 as "heavy boilered" and I was wondering just what that meant. I notice by the configuration of the dome shut off valve that it appears to not be the "Canadian" 28.

At Rollag we have that beautiful 45 single tandem compound, a 28 American and 28 Canadian, a 24, 22, and 20 which has a wonderful new boiler. One of our members is planning to have a 22 return flue single tandem compound engine (with new boiler, of course) running at the 2007 Rollag show.

I am the guy with the production records of all the steam engines MTM built as well as the steam engine drawings that were up for auction at the Rynda sale at Montgomery, Minnesota. I have digitally photographed all the drawings now and am working on a data base relating the drawings to the parts books and the individual part numbers. I would be glad to answer any questions about this project which won't be complete until the first part of 2007.

All of the companies that produced steam traction engines had unique design ideas and all experimented with different designs and sizes. This might be a good forum in which to discuss some of the output from MTM and I would be glad to assist anyone with questions. I can also post some drawings and/or photos of some of the output. Remember, MTM produced more return flue engines than direct flue and for a time made nothing but double cylinder, double stack engines on direct flue boilers as well as some on return flue boilers. Double stack was a failure and resulted in a big big recall!
 
Last Subscription Date
11/13/2013
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

Gerald Parker said:
Thanks for starting this small forum on Minneapolis steam engines! It is great to see the pictures of that 28 pulling the 12 bottom plow! Someone referred to that 28 as "heavy boilered" and I was wondering just what that meant. I notice by the configuration of the dome shut off valve that it appears to not be the "Canadian" 28.

At Rollag we have that beautiful 45 single tandem compound, a 28 American and 28 Canadian, a 24, 22, and 20 which has a wonderful new boiler. One of our members is planning to have a 22 return flue single tandem compound engine (with new boiler, of course) running at the 2007 Rollag show.

I am the guy with the production records of all the steam engines MTM built as well as the steam engine drawings that were up for auction at the Rynda sale at Montgomery, Minnesota. I have digitally photographed all the drawings now and am working on a data base relating the drawings to the parts books and the individual part numbers. I would be glad to answer any questions about this project which won't be complete until the first part of 2007.

All of the companies that produced steam traction engines had unique design ideas and all experimented with different designs and sizes. This might be a good forum in which to discuss some of the output from MTM and I would be glad to assist anyone with questions. I can also post some drawings and/or photos of some of the output. Remember, MTM produced more return flue engines than direct flue and for a time made nothing but double cylinder, double stack engines on direct flue boilers as well as some on return flue boilers. Double stack was a failure and resulted in a big big recall!
Gerald,
I am not any type of authority about Minneapolis steam engines, but this boiler has a butt strap, which Austin Monk referred to as the "heavy boiler." That's all I know about it. I don't know about the main shut off valve. Would MTM have used a different valve on later engines? I don't remember for positive, but I think Austin said this engine was built in the later 1920s. I know that last year, the Western Montana Boiler Inspector would have given this engine 175 psi operating pressure, as he couldn't find one blemish in it anywhere. Austin Monk only ran 150 psi on this Minneapolis as he did his 40 hp Peerless, which they would have given him 175 on it too. Austin liked to limit destruction of an engine with steam pressure.
Gary;)
 

Gerald Parker

Registered
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

Gary, thanks for the quick reply. The 28's were built in two designs which I refer to as Canadian and American. Austin's was an American, that angle shut off valve on the dome helps identify it AND there are 62 2" tubes in that boiler whereas there are 37 2.5" tubes in the Canadian. The American had at least 50 square feet of tube heating surface more than the Canadian! But since we know that firebox heating surface evaporates about 5 times more water than tube heating surface and since the fireboxes were the same, both will make steam under any conditions. The Canadian was a thicker boiler than the American but both were butt strap. The 28 was one style that was never made with a lap seam. So we can say that "heavy boilered" was a term used by Austin comparing these to the lighter laps.

The "American" 28's came with a 150 psi safety valve, the "Canadian" 28's came with a 165 psi safety valve AND those unique little safety valves on each end of the cylinder which were also set at 165 psi. Canadian dome shut off valves were "in line" valves rather than the angle valve used on most of the other MTM engines. Also the Canadian 28's had heavier drivers. The 28 Canadian was built along with a "34" Canadian which had a 12" by 12" cylinder but used the same drivers as the 28. I know of no 34's remaining although we do have a boiler at Rollag from a 34. I think that only 25 of the "34" model were made!
 
Last Subscription Date
11/13/2013
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

Hey Gerald,
I concede and thanks for the training session. I sincerely appreciate that. I did some research. Warren Bellinger owned a "light boiler" 28 from the Steam Engine Joe sale for a few days. He sent a photo of it and stated it was a "light boiler 28" Minneapolis. That was good enough for me, as I don't know my Minneapolis engines and have only run three of them. Your explanation of Austin's interpretation satisfies me.

I guess I can still scratch my head as to why a butt strap boiler wouldn't pass importation to our neighbors to the north, but a triple rivet Case lap seam would? That is the beauty of steam traction engines... There is no blanket answer that covers all engines and I can still learn something new here on SmokStak!

This first picture shows me in the crewcut as we were threshing with Shelby Bellinger's 20 hp at the Cattle Congress show grounds at Waterloo, Iowa in 1958.



I am at the throttle of the Barnes' 22 hp Minneapolis on the weight transfer sled at Belgrade, Montana several years ago. My friend Dave Witthar was at the steering wheel and, I'm sad to say, the sled won.



This is a picture Of Austin Monk and his 28 hp Minneapolis in the 1960s, where he found the engine. It had been fence cornered to where it couldn't be pulled out so he took a water wagon, grease and oil and drove it out.



This is me and my good friend Richard Rorvig at Rollag last fall, beside the 45 hp tandem compound.
Gary

 

Jeff Smith

Registered
Last Subscription Date
08/05/2018
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

20 Reeves Highwheeler said:
Gary K,
Your thread should have a picture of that 45 hp Minneapolis Richard Rorvig restored for the late Norman Pross. I took this photo last fall and I see I got some others as well.
Gary;)


Gary,

What is that little portable at the end of the row?

Thank you,

Jeff
 

oldtractors

Registered
Age
50
Last Subscription Date
12/22/2015
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

Here are some of Jerred Rubles engines that are at Heritage Park of North Iowa. 20HP, 22 HP, 28 HP Canadian, and 30 HP. Hopefully, the order matches the pictures

Jim Evans
 

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oldtractors

Registered
Age
50
Last Subscription Date
12/22/2015
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

Here are a couple of pictures of Jerred Rubles 26 HP double. Lee Wyman previously owned this. I believe this one came out of the factory with dual stacks?

Jim Evans
 

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Gary K

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/15/2019
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

Gerald Parker
Supposedly years ago, the Minneapolis Co., cut up some brand new steam traction engines that were in a warehouse. Story goes, that these engines didn't sell, and they needed the warehouse for other purposes, so they cut them up for scrap. Do you know if this is true, and if so, what year this took place, how many engines, etc.?

Gary K
 
Last Subscription Date
11/13/2013
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

Jeff Smith said:
Gary,

What is that little portable at the end of the row?

Thank you,

Jeff
Jeff,
I don't remember. Maybe another Rollager will know???:shrug:
Gary;)
 

Gerald Parker

Registered
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

The "LITTLE PORTABLE" in the picture is a little Birdsall. And, it actually isn't portable, it is self-propelled!

No, I can state that MTM did NOT cut up engines that didn't sell. But they did have engines from their last year of production (1924) that sold in later years, possibly into the early 30's.

If anyone would be interested I could post some production statistics regarding the output of MTM steam from start to finish.
 
Last Subscription Date
11/13/2013
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

Some double cylinder Minneapolis engines...
This first one is the Tyler 30 hp pulling three cylinder plows at Moore, Montana in 1958. I skipped school to watch!



This was a double Minnie near Buffalo, Montana. Don't know any more.



This was a double Minnie near Glendive, Montana and had just crossed the Yellowstone River in winter.



This is a picture my friend Tom Stebritz sent me, showing a 45 dtc on the belt.
Gary

 
Last Subscription Date
11/13/2013
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

Gerald Parker said:
The "LITTLE PORTABLE" in the picture is a little Birdsall. And, it actually isn't portable, it is self-propelled!

No, I can state that MTM did NOT cut up engines that didn't sell. But they did have engines from their last year of production (1924) that sold in later years, possibly into the early 30's.

If anyone would be interested I could post some production statistics regarding the output of MTM steam from start to finish.
Gerald,
I should have remembered that little Birdsall setting there.

It seems Austin Monk said the 28 Minneapolis was sold new in 1928, and remarked, "That was the year the Model A Ford came out." I think you likely explained how that happened, with a discontinuation of production in 1924.

As you know, I'm rather inept with Minneapolis statistics and knowledge, but I'd like more MTM statistics. I love learning here. Especially when I'm not learning it the hard way, with someone else hammering me.:bonk:
Gary;)
 

Gary K

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/15/2019
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

Jeff Smith
Click on the attachment below, as it's a photo I found of the Birdsall on the WMSTR website. I believe this is the smallest non-scale steam traction engine at Rollag? This steamer has automobile type steering system.

Gerald Parker
How many steam engines did Minneapolis manufacture? In my 1914 Minneapolis catalog I was looking at the feedwater heater internals. It looks like it has a big tube with a bunch of small tubes in it? Did this design work good? I like the sloping crown sheet that Minneapolis employed in their boilers . . . only one high spot instead of the whole sheet! Did Minneapolis set their valve for equal cut-off or equal lead? When the 45 hp tandem compound was first shown, I remember watching it on a threshing machine, and noticed it had a unique exhaust sound! I'm always interested in steam engine "water rates", as it's a mark of efficiency . . . did Minneapolis list any for their engines?

Gary Y
Thanks for posting the photo of the 28 hp pulling the 12-bottom plow . . . I wish I could of seen it at work! That reminds of last year while attending the Dalton show, as they have a nice 28 hp Minneapolis, but it wasn't running very good for some reason? I seen it in the field pulling a plow and barking real loud out the exhaust, so I hurried over there to get some pictures. I couldn't believe it . . . none of the plows were in the ground, and it was laboring all it was good for?! Later when they were going to put it on the threshing machine, the engineer got the engine lined up crooked, so he backed down the hill to get straightened out, then didn't have enough power to climb back up the hill! I've seen the engine operate some years back on the plow and in the tractor pull . . . did pretty good then.

Gary K
 

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Colin

Registered
Last Subscription Date
11/13/2013
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

Gary k i wonder if Jerry or someone can tell me if that Minne was at rollag for the last MTM expo. we were up in the construction area with a 40 and 50 trying to grade and stuff and there was a heavy? 28 there and it kind of went Chunk and something fell apart in the valve and it coudln't move. They ended up pulling it out with a cat because it was pointing up hill. we knew we coudln't titen the chain with a 50, and neither did the 20 Advance that tried to tug it outa there haha :bonk: maybe it had a valve coming out of adjustment or something when u saw it, if this is the same engine im thinking about.
It must be about 10 years ago now but i remember when they put the big extensions on the 45 Tc at Rollag:brows: anyone have an idea what it weighs loaded or empty?
 

Ray Wangler

Registered
Last Subscription Date
02/07/2013
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

Casemaker: What ever happened to the 1/3 RF? Do you have any pictures? There aren't many Minneapolis models around, I think building one would be a gas. I like castings and drawings..........has anyone ever done Minneapolis similar to Terning, Reduction, or Hartland? Just curious?
 
Last Subscription Date
11/13/2013
Re: The Great MINNEAPOLIS Line

Three more double cylinder Minneapolis engine in Montana.

This shows a double plowing near Helena, Montana.



This is Wagner's (I think double cylinder) plowing near Galata, Montana.



This is a double Minneapolis and a 32 Reeves cross compound plowing near Coffee Creek, Montana.



This is an early-late style Minneapolis which has the early side tank, much like Reeves used, shown threshing near Fort Benton, Montana, the world's innermost port.
Gary
P.S. I will be gone and not posting any more photos for the weekend, due to firing that 28 hp Minneapolis the late Austin Monk owned!!!
Gary

 
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