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Unknown engine coil?

BobRR

Registered
Does anyone know what this coil was used for?(if it is a coil)It has 5 terminals 1 in each corner and 1 in the center.All wood constuction.The ones in the corners are marked, left top says "INT" lower left "G" right top corner "carbon" right lower corner"ZINC" no marking on the center.The only other markings is 13410 stamped in the wood base.Any ideas? BobRR
 

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Don C. Wiley

In Memory Of
Age
86
Last Subscription Date
03/08/2010
Bob;

If it doesn't have vibtrating points it can't be a buzz coil. The "carbon" and "zink" sounds like it would have something to do with a primary battery, just a wild guess.

"DELCO DON" :p :cool: ;) :) Southern Illinois
 

Elden DuRand

In Memory Of
Age
78
Last Subscription Date
12/22/2017
BobRR said:
Does anyone know what this coil was used for?(if it is a coil)It has 5 terminals 1 in each corner and 1 in the center.All wood constuction.The ones in the corners are marked, left top says "INT" lower left "G" right top corner "carbon" right lower corner"ZINC" no marking on the center.The only other markings is 13410 stamped in the wood base.Any ideas? BobRR
I'll venture my own guess here:

What you've got is likely to be a high-tension coil that uses an external vibrator or interruptor to make it into a buzz coil.

The terminals would be as follow:
"INT" would go to the interruptor. From there, a wire would go to the timer.
"G" would go to ground (the engine frame).
"carbon" goes to the positive terminal of a LeClanche wet cell or dry cell battery.
"Zinc" goes to the negative terminal of a LeClanche wet cell or dry cell battery.

The center terminal would go to the spark plug.

My guess is that the "Zinc" terminal and the "G" terminal are connected together inside the box.

Early cars (prior to 1910) used a coil like this that had a "master vibrator", not mounted on the coil.

Disclaimer: This information has a net worth that is exactly the amount the purchaser has remitted.

Take care - Elden
 

BobRR

Registered
Thanks Guys! Don sure is nice to hear from you! :) Hope your doing good!!You guys confirmed my thoughts.What would be safe voltage to run a test? Elden will a set of points work or does it need a vibrator? Im assuming(mother of all screw ups) ;) that this is kind of like a more modern coil? :crazy: Thanks again BobRR
 

Elden DuRand

In Memory Of
Age
78
Last Subscription Date
12/22/2017
BobRR said:
Thanks Guys! Don sure is nice to hear from you! :) Hope your doing good!!You guys confirmed my thoughts.What would be safe voltage to run a test? Elden will a set of points work or does it need a vibrator? Im assuming(mother of all screw ups) ;) that this is kind of like a more modern coil? :crazy: Thanks again BobRR
Oooooookay! Here goes nuthin'!

You're right in that it is a "kind of" modern coil except that, in most of these, there is an internal condenser. If you don't want to fool with it, just go to the note at the end of this message. :)

I've drawn what I think is the way to hook up the coil you have. I have made a few ASS-UMP-TIONS here and you must take them into consideration.

First you have to do some measurements. Check to see if there's a short circuit (zero Ohm) connection between the "Zinc" and "Gnd" terminals. Now, check to see if there's a fairly high resistance (over 1,000 Ohms or so) connection between these terminals and the unmarked terminal in the middle. If so, we're on the right track and you can go to the next paragraph. If not, go to the note at the end of this message.

Next, check to see if there is a low resistance (2-10 Ohms or so) connection between "Carbon" and "INT". If so, go to the next paragraph. If not, go to the note at the end of this message.

I will ass-u-me that there is a condenser inside the box. It could be a couple of places in the circuit but we'll ass-u-me it's between the "INT" and the "Gnd" terminals.

Now, if all of the above is true;
- The spark plug goes to the center terminal on the box.
- Chassis ground goes to the "GND" terminal on the box.
- The positive battery terminal goes to the "Carbon" terminal on the box.
- The negative battery terminal goes to the "Zinc" terminal on the box.
- Points or a "master vibrator" go to the "INT" terminal on the box.

There are two ways to test the coil if it's as shown. Be sure to connect a stiff wire from the "GND" terminal and lead this wire around to about a quarter-inch from the unmarked (spark plug) terminal on the box. This is a safety gap. In case the coil is good, it won't arc internally and commit suicide.

ONE - Easiest is to make the connections as shown except for the "INT" connection. Now, take a wire hooked to the "INT" terminal and swipe it to ground. You should get a high voltage spark from the unmarked terminal of the coil every time you swipe ground. DO NOT LEAVE THE "INT" TERMINAL CONNECTED TO GROUND! The smoke will leak out of the coil and it won't work any more!
- If the coil makes a nice hot spark, you can use it without an external condenser, using it like a modern coil with momentary contact points. The coil will fire when the points are opened.

If you get a little wimpy spark to the center terminal, connect a regular automotive condenser (value is not critical) between the "INT" terminal and the "GND" terminal. Re-try the test. You should now get a nice hot spark. If you still do not get a hot spark, there's something gone south inside the box. Go to the note at the end of this message.

TWO - You can make a "master vibrator" using a 6-Volt automotive relay like an old fashioned horn relay. Hook it up as shown so the normally open contacts are across the coil of the relay. When you ground the "Timer" lead, the relay will pull-in, shorting across the relay coil, making the primary of the induction coil draw current. At the same time, because the contacts of the relay have shorted-out the relay coil, the relay contacts will open etc., etc., etc., creating a buzz coil effect. (at least that's the way it SHOULD work)

NOTE: If your measurements don't jibe with what's above, you can let me know the actual circuits/resistances between the terminals and I'll try another approach -OR- if you just don't want to fool with it, you can donate the coil to the Elden E. DuRand Rust And Corrosion Research Institute. In thanks for your donation, I will tell you what you've got.....I hope.....maybe. :rolleyes:

Take care - Elden
http://home.cybertron.com/~edurand
 

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Dick Welty

Registered
BobRR and Elden,

I have used an old doorbell or buzzer for the buzz switch. If you find the right kind they work well and it's kind of fun to have the bell ring when the engine ignition is tripped.
 

BobRR

Registered
Elden you be the man! Both of the old coils work! :D I didnt hook up a vibrator but just arking a ground wire made a decent spark! :eek: Now to figure out what they went to.?Thanks BobRR
 

Craig A

Moderator
Staff member
Age
68
Last Subscription Date
12/20/2015
Several of the OLD 2 cylinder tractors used a dual coilbox for starting using battery ignition and then switching to the mag once running. For EZ starting those buzz coils just CAN'T be beat!!! :D The Case 20-40 is one of those to use that system.
Craig
 

BobRR

Registered
Craig did they use 2 t-coils, 2 engine buzz coils or 2 coils like I have with a seperate vibrator? :crazy: BobRR
 
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