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What is the best type of welding for this repair?

cobbadog

Registered
Hi Guys, I am in the middle of restoring a vintage Imperial Super-Diesel crude oil engine. I found this today and is possibly the reason the engine was de-commissioned. The roller seized and wore away the face of the cam. Now I want to build it back up to the levels that have been left behind as original height. Since I now have the roller rolling again and very freely what would be the best type of welding to use to build it up? Is MIG appropriate or would I need a special grade electrode for the the arc welder?
I will thank you all now for any and all help in this matter.20200411_133600.jpg20200411_144632.jpg
 

rider5

Registered
I think that I might try going with brass or bronze using an o/a torch. You want to warm up the whole thing a bit before brazing.
 

AussieIron

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
02/04/2020
Would be easiest to do and dress with bronze but would it wear OK? Would be cast I reckon, with pre and post heat some nickle type rods like castcraft or the more modern ones now would work. I would heat it up good to get rid of any oil that may have got into the cast. Not a big job because nothings broken, no cracks etc to worry about. looks solid enough to not crack.
 

cobbadog

Registered
Will definately need heating to get rid of the oil. This engine failed because of this problem and what caused the problem is the roller that ran on the cam seized solid because of poor lubrication from low oil pressure, level or blockage in the oil lines.
Thank you for the replies and it looks like I am about to have ago at welding cast.
 

MColopy

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
12/14/2019
There is a camshaft repair company— Camcraft in Canton NC 828-681-5183– that advertises in the back of GEM. I have not used them so I can’t speak from experience. A small part wouldn’t be hard to ship so it might be worth talking to them.
 

Tracy T

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
07/16/2019
I would be concerned with hardness, it most likely had a heat treating for hardness...
 

DustyBar

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
01/14/2020
Years ago I brazed and built up a gear with something called gear bronze. Looked just like brazing rod and applied with a torch. It had a low melting point and a second remelt took much higher temperature which made it possible to build up quite a thickness. It was quite hard afterward too. It ran many more years, the pinion gear on a cement mixer, completely exposed to cement sand and gravel.
 

The Stick Man

Registered
Hi Guys, I am in the middle of restoring a vintage Imperial Super-Diesel crude oil engine. I found this today and is possibly the reason the engine was de-commissioned. The roller seized and wore away the face of the cam. Now I want to build it back up to the levels that have been left behind as original height. Since I now have the roller rolling again and very freely what would be the best type of welding to use to build it up? Is MIG appropriate or would I need a special grade electrode for the the arc welder?
I will thank you all now for any and all help in this matter.View attachment 389823View attachment 389824
Hi cobbadog, I don’t know if you have resolved this repair, but cast iron responds well to spray metalising. Basically, liquid metal sprayed onto the worn surface which fuses on the surface. It then gets ground to the right profile like new. If the process is good enough for repairing commercial jet engine rotor shafts it should be ok for your project. Check out A1 Metalising.
 

AussieIron

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
02/04/2020
Will definately need heating to get rid of the oil. This engine failed because of this problem and what caused the problem is the roller that ran on the cam seized solid because of poor lubrication from low oil pressure, level or blockage in the oil lines.
Thank you for the replies and it looks like I am about to have ago at welding cast.
Take your time, little by little and you'll be fine. The castcraft rods don't run as even as normal rods, but you're not after looks, just grind off the dags! Other cast suitable rods may run better.
I'd do it for you if you were nearer. Remember to post and pre heat a little, and put gear in some lime or sand after, cool out of breeze,real slow. Maybe protect gears from weld spatter too.
 

Kevin O. Pulver

Email NOT Working
Age
54
Last Subscription Date
02/14/2020
I think you'd get a lot of information from searching cast welding in the archives here. What is already suggested would probably be fine. But I have also had good success with plain cast welding rods and high heat flux with oxygen and acetylene torch.
Lots of preheat and post heat and slow cool down as said by others. I've also done the spray welding and had good success with it.
Lots of good cast welding information at LocknStitch.Com
 

J.B. Castagnos

Registered
Last Subscription Date
01/01/2006
Is that lobe pressed on to the camshaft? If so I would make a duplicate and change it. if it's integral to the shaft I think I would make a duplicate cam lobe, turn that one round and shrink the new one on to it, install a couple of Dutch keys. You could bore a piece of cast to fit over the shaft, clamp in place and scribe the profile, turn the shaft round and install.
 

G.M.Johnson

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
11/05/8018
I can tell you from my two experiences with welding up a worn cam lob on some of the manufacturing equipment where I work. The first one I used Ni99 rod and the second time I just used standard steel mig wire to build the cam back up and then used a dremel with a diamond 1/2" cutter to cut the profile back down. Porting heads and cylinders most of my life probably helped with the cutting process but just go slow and take your time. If you use regular steel mig wire be sure to heat the cam up to a dull red glow. This will allow the mild steel to better blend with the cast iron.
 

cobbadog

Registered
First I must thank everyone for their replies. I thought about making a larger diameter roller and just clean up the lip all the way around the cam and that should be fine. Then a reply from another Forum bought it to my attention that by doing that repair it would alter the profile of the cam and not give the correct lift and duration and the more I looked at the damage and shape I tend to agree, so back to building this up.
With no oxy to use at hand and only a rather large LPG burner as a heat source I think that the cast iron rods may be the way to go. Living in Rural NSW there is no one around with the fancy spray welding equipment locally so sending it off would be the only way that could be done.
Machinig down or off the existing cam is a possiblity and then making another and getting to be exactly in the correct timing position would be out of my ability.
As this is early days for the rebuilding of the engine I am happy that I found this issue so early in the rebuild. This allows me to ask for opinions and then weigh up what I can or cannot do, can I do it or have to send it off or find someone local. If the larger roller was the answer I have the steel and the lathe to do so but the thoughts that it would not be right has put me off that route. I wonder how many more times I will change my mind on this repair, I think I'm at 4 now.
Please don't be offended if I choose to not use your suggestion/s but I have and will take all the ideas onboard, thank you.
 

J.B. Castagnos

Registered
Last Subscription Date
01/01/2006
I would suggest you make a template-guide if you plan to weld it. Cast iron is usually hard to weld and doesn't flow that well. I don't think you will be able to weld next to the remaining lobe without destroying it, you will lose your guide. Slip a piece of iron over the cam and scribe it, cut it to match, after welding it can be put in place as a guide.
 

cobbadog

Registered
Like a woman I keep re-thinking my plan, weld it up and linish it back, leave it and make a larger roller and now back to the welding idea. This has come about because I loose some of the cam profile if I don't weld it up. In a couple of places the wear has not been the same as in other places and I can detect uneven wear around the cam lobe. So now I'm looking at buying some hi nickel rods (E Ni). I would guess that the 3.2mm rods would be better than the 2.5mm ones as far as coverage.
Already part of today was spent making a template to match the outer lip of what the cam should be when finished. I have my small bench top linisher that I can fit a very fine paper on and just take it slowly back to shape. Something that was handed down from my much missed late Father is 'patience', I have a heap of it so again I am confident I can get this part right.
I have read many times the importance of pre and post heating of the job and I have another cast repair I can have a go at for practise before attempting this one. If I get time this week I will head into town to the welding shop to see what I can buy in the way of rods.
 

rider5

Registered
cobbadog, it sounds like you have given this some very serious thought as to what you are able to do and what you have to work with. I suggested using bronze when you said that a roller which you had freed up was going to ride on the cam. If you don't have a torch then I guess that is out. I do think it can be welded with some type of rod for cast of course the machining gets more difficult. If it is any consolation most cams are made of some what better qualitiy cast which means than welding them successfully is more likely. And if you find some rod, try and get as much info from the manufacture as possible into the use and processes for the rod. Many of us here have done some cast repairs and I am certain that all would say that every new cast repair can present it's own challanges. So go for it, doing it for yourself is why you started working on these old engines in the first place, right? Good luck and let us know how you make out.
 

Charley K

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
10/09/2019
can tell you from my two experiences with welding up a worn cam lob on some of the manufacturing equipment where I work. The first one I used Ni99 rod and the second time I just used standard steel mig wire to build the cam back........... Mr. GM Johnson, I have spent the last fifty two years welding every kind of metal from Inconel to cast, boiler tubes, rear end housings, aluminum boats ect. Several years ago I had the nerve to suggest welding cast with a mild steel mig wire. You would have thought some welding rule sacrilege was committed. I did not threaten to crap in their supper or even steal their wives. Truth is, welding cast with mig wire works better than any ni rod I have ever used, Try it on a burned out exhaust manifold that nothing else will stick to. Don't know if it will be the best application for your repair, probably the cam repair shop that was mentioned would be a good bet. But Please, under penalty of severe disdain do not ever say mig and cast in the same sentence on this forum again. Charley K
 

CharlieHasaHarley

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
09/30/2019
Wondering If you have ever thought bout Tig welding it instead of mig
Think if it was me I would either gas weld it with an oxygen and acetylene torch or a Tig torch.
With either method. You wont have any spatter to mess with welding like you would have with mig or stick
Think a Tig torch you can put the weld right where you want and/or need it.
Good Luck with the repair.
Charlie
 

zuhnc

Subscriber
Last Subscription Date
12/08/2019
Welding cast iron, even with the correct electrode, is fraught with disaster, if you have never done it before. Takes a lot of practice to get everything set correctly. Pre-heat, post heat, amperage, etc. And, the welded part is subject to cracking in the heat-affected-zone if not done properly. I concur with others - send it off to the experts, or build up the part with brass. Make a template of the profile with some sheet metal, prior to repair, for use after the repair is finished and to verify the correct profile. I am not too fond of using melting-point heat on a part that is subject to warpage, as this assembly appears to be. zuhnc
 
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